The "kit" lens revisited, is it as bad as they say?

In article , Stacey
wrote:

Most of the "canonites" have never used anything but a canon so have NO idea
what else is out there. Many of them started with a Canon autofocus 35mm
and have never used anything else.

Not me. I wouldn't consider myself a Canonite, but I do own one. But I
come from the film world of medium format - Hasselblad, RB, & Pentax.

How about ?

1- 50mm
2-18-55
3- 24-70
4- 24-85
5- 35-80



40% you got two right. 1 and 3. Now if anyone cares about picking the
two
remaining choices (#4 was given in a previous post).

Jean



Not too bad then I could spot a good one or two, the others probably depend
on the individual lens. I compared 18-55 to a 24-85 and it depended very
much on focal length and conditions.

Regards your comments about the 10D AF, one thing to be aware of is the
actual coverage of the AF sensors relative to the viewfinder markings. If
you haven't seen the inof before take a look at
http://www.knighttrain.freeserve.co.uk/400.htm . I find the camera will tend
to focus on the extremes of the AF sensor first !

Cheers

jean top-posts:

This is the other problem with the test: since only you know the
answers, you can (if you wish) simply make it up as you go along. Who
can tell? You may wish to publish a hash of the results prior to
revealing the 'answer', though this can't remove all doubt.

You can doubt my honesty if you want, but why should I fudge the results?

I have no idea; why should you? However, now that you are aware of
the problem and a solution that can mitigate it, why not just post a
hash of the document containing the correct answer?

I have nothing to gain or to lose.

So you claim; and maybe truly, but there is no evidence one way or the
other.

Since I don't want to drag this on for months, I can tell you right
off that the only person bold enough to venture a guess had lens 4 right.

Or was it 3 or 1? Who can say?

Recommended reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagram - some 17th century astronomers
anagrammed their discoveries to reduce the risk of others claiminng
priority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof - the modern day
equivalent, and one very apropos to your situation.

Thomas M=FCller wrote:

Autofocus, or manually focused, with good eyesight? If autofocus,
forget comparisons.

Why? Maybe he should make 5 Shots, and select the worst, but if I buy an
autofocus lense, i want the autofocus to work properly.

He should take N shots (N =3D 7 or so), each one manually and
_independently_ focused (ie, you completely defocus the image and bring
it back to focus) on the _same target_, and then select the _best_ one
of the set. Repeat for all M lenses.

Better would be to present all NxM images, as they contain valuable
information about the performance of the test (was the tripod any good?
subject motion blur? etc), and lens quality.

a écrit dans le message de
oups.com...
Thomas Müller wrote:

Autofocus, or manually focused, with good eyesight? If autofocus,
forget comparisons.

Why? Maybe he should make 5 Shots, and select the worst, but if I buy an
autofocus lense, i want the autofocus to work properly.

He should take N shots (N = 7 or so), each one manually and
_independently_ focused (ie, you completely defocus the image and bring
it back to focus) on the _same target_, and then select the _best_ one
of the set. Repeat for all M lenses.

Better would be to present all NxM images, as they contain valuable
information about the performance of the test (was the tripod any good?
subject motion blur? etc), and lens quality.


Now consider the way most people take pictures while on vacation, hand held,
no tripod single or double shots at the most with amny of the grunt taken
over by the camera (autofocus, in AV or TV mode) and ponder how will any
lens shine above the other.

Granted I am happy to own a good one (24-70 f2,8 L) and many of it's
features come in handy most of the time, it is a fast lens, the autofocus is
very fast, but it has it's drawbacks the main ones being the weight and
size. Most people are traumatized by the size, thinking I may be taking
pictures of their nostrils.

Jean

a écrit dans le message de
ups.com...
jean top-posts:

This is the other problem with the test: since only you know the
answers, you can (if you wish) simply make it up as you go along. Who
can tell? You may wish to publish a hash of the results prior to
revealing the 'answer', though this can't remove all doubt.

You can doubt my honesty if you want, but why should I fudge the
results?

I have no idea; why should you? However, now that you are aware of
the problem and a solution that can mitigate it, why not just post a
hash of the document containing the correct answer?

OK, I will post another series soon with 4 lenses (my daughter took her
24-85 with her to college) and include a small encoded zip file to which the
key will be given after a few days. I wanted to post pictures with more
colors but the day I took them was rather dull and being a last minute
person, I waited until the last minute when I drove her to the bus station
to take the series of pictures.

Would that be OK?

Jean


I have nothing to gain or to lose.

So you claim; and maybe truly, but there is no evidence one way or the
other.

Since I don't want to drag this on for months, I can tell you right
off that the only person bold enough to venture a guess had lens 4
right.

Or was it 3 or 1? Who can say?

I can, so far lenses identified a
lens 1 50mm f1,8
lens 2
lens 3 24-70mm f2,8 L
lens 4 35-80mm f4-5,6
lens 5

So lens 2 and lens 4 are either the kit lens or a Canon 24-85 f4,5-5,6. Any
guess? Can't go very wrong, 50% chance of being right without even looking.

Jean

Recommended reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagram - some 17th century astronomers
anagrammed their discoveries to reduce the risk of others claiminng
priority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof - the modern day
equivalent, and one very apropos to your situation.

jean wrote:

He should take N shots (N = 7 or so), each one manually and
_independently_ focused (ie, you completely defocus the image and bring
it back to focus) on the _same target_, and then select the _best_ one
of the set. Repeat for all M lenses.

Better would be to present all NxM images, as they contain valuable
information about the performance of the test (was the tripod any good?
subject motion blur? etc), and lens quality.

Now consider the way most people take pictures while on vacation, hand held,
no tripod single or double shots at the most with amny of the grunt taken
over by the camera (autofocus, in AV or TV mode) and ponder how will any
lens shine above the other.

Well, in that case, you'll have to tell us what you were up to this
test, as according to your OP, you mounted your camera on a tripod.

Granted I am happy to own a good one (24-70 f2,8 L) and many of it's
features come in handy most of the time, it is a fast lens, the autofocus is
very fast, but it has it's drawbacks the main ones being the weight and
size. Most people are traumatized by the size, thinking I may be taking
pictures of their nostrils.

As a subgenius, I can only offer the following advice: "**** 'em if
they can't take a joke." (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgenius)
You may also wish to consider the #2 of the Holy Canon Lens
Triumvirate, the 17-35/2.8 or whatever it is these days (the sacred
third is the EF 70-200/2.8L, IS at your option). With the 17-35, most
pinks^H^H^H, normal people think you are taking pictures of open sky...

Why not shoot
1) all lenses at f/5.6 and with shutter speed set M so that you can
show the lens wide open (or very close to wide open)and
2) shoot somewhat into the sun so that we can judge flare in the lens,
and
3) focus on a sign with different sizes of text, so that we can judge
the relative resolution, and
4) have signs in the center and at the edges of the frame so that we
can judge center vs. edge performance, and
5) shoot a brick wall so that we can judge the lens for pincushion and
barrel distortion.

The photos you provided at f/8 and f/16 does little to help anyone do
anything but GUESS! It's like going to a party, and playing a game
where you put nylons on the legs of the husbands and have the wives
guess which leg is their own husbands based on the below-the-knee
nylon-clad leg! Few clues to make a reasonable guess.

a écrit dans le message de
ups.com...
jean wrote:

He should take N shots (N = 7 or so), each one manually and
_independently_ focused (ie, you completely defocus the image and bring
it back to focus) on the _same target_, and then select the _best_ one
of the set. Repeat for all M lenses.

Better would be to present all NxM images, as they contain valuable
information about the performance of the test (was the tripod any good?
subject motion blur? etc), and lens quality.

Now consider the way most people take pictures while on vacation, hand
held,
no tripod single or double shots at the most with amny of the grunt
taken
over by the camera (autofocus, in AV or TV mode) and ponder how will any
lens shine above the other.

Well, in that case, you'll have to tell us what you were up to this
test, as according to your OP, you mounted your camera on a tripod.

That's to give all the shots the same framing which I could not do
handholding the camera. Do you honestly think handholding the camera would
change the results? that the better lenses would show a greater difference?

Granted I am happy to own a good one (24-70 f2,8 L) and many of it's
features come in handy most of the time, it is a fast lens, the
autofocus is
very fast, but it has it's drawbacks the main ones being the weight and
size. Most people are traumatized by the size, thinking I may be taking
pictures of their nostrils.

As a subgenius, I can only offer the following advice: "**** 'em if
they can't take a joke." (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgenius)
You may also wish to consider the #2 of the Holy Canon Lens
Triumvirate, the 17-35/2.8 or whatever it is these days (the sacred
third is the EF 70-200/2.8L, IS at your option). With the 17-35, most
pinks^H^H^H, normal people think you are taking pictures of open sky...

No, I think if I had to take one "normal" lens it would be a 50mm equivalent
in APS size sensored camera, to put it another way, a 28mm or 24mm prime or
fixed focus lens. When travelling with my 24-70, it would be most often
used at 24mm or it was at 70mm wishing it could go further (at which point I
would use a 70-300 zoom).

Jean