Nikon D300s first major camera to dump CF?

On 6/13/09 18:33 , nospam wrote:
In ,
D. Peter wrote:

It's not how many use any one format without a problem, it's the
cost of having the problem for those who do that makes the issue.

if the problem affects a tiny percentage of users then it's not really
that important. there will be edge cases where one is better than the
other for either side.


Actually, if you look at the wide ranging options in photography,
they all appear to be edge cases, from someone's perspective. But when
you need an option, you need it. In that case, it's anything but an edge
case.

So, you think there should be only the options you think are
relevant. Thank God you don't get to make that choice. My business
wouldn't exist.




I've never had a problem with SD, either, for that matter. But
it's easier to change cards in the middle of an aerial shoot,
sitting out on the skid of a JetRanger at 80kts, when you're
handling a larger card that can be handled quickly with gloves on,
than it is something smaller and lighter, requiring finer fingers.

so now the user has to be wearing gloves and hanging in mid-air? talk
about a contrived scenario.


Really? That was my original premise. I face that scenario at least
once a month every month. In the summer, every weekend.



In this case, easier means quicker. Quicker means I can return to
shooting faster. Fewer missed shots.

And when you're being paid for a shoot, you can't afford to 1)
Drop a card, 2) miss a shot.

then you can't afford the time it takes to swap a card or risk dropping
anything from the aforementioned jetranger. your assistant would have
a second body ready to use the moment you fill the card in the first
camera.

Always an answer. Good. Try this...1) you don't take an assistant up
in the aircraft. There simply isn't capacity or weight/balance for an
assistant, between the pilot and the creative director and me out on the
skid, which is seriously outside the balance envelop. The pilot will not
launch with another person aboard if I'm outside the skin. 2) I take two
bodies up. But I also shoot near 3000 images on days like that. Do the
math. I'm going to have to change cards in one, or both bodies, no matter.

And I'm not the only one who faces this. Last boat race I shot there
were three birds in the air.

When I did the aerials this past New Year's day, there were two
photographers aboard and a pilot. Both of us were out of the skin, both
shooting with twin bodies. Both of us wearing gloves, changing cards.

I didn't see anyone telling either of us that it was an edge kind of
scenario.

In article
, D Peter
Maus wrote:

Actually, if you look at the wide ranging options in photography,
they all appear to be edge cases, from someone's perspective. But when
you need an option, you need it. In that case, it's anything but an edge
case.

sure, but nikon doesn't build a camera for you specifically. they build
what they think will appeal to most photographers. sd cards are very
popular and not just for cameras, so it makes sense to use them for
future products. sd cards are also less expensive, smaller and more
reliable than compact flash. however, if you need compact flash for
whatever reason, then buy a camera with compact flash. if it's that
important, someone will fill the niche.

So, you think there should be only the options you think are
relevant. Thank God you don't get to make that choice. My business
wouldn't exist.

i didn't say it should be the only option, i said that the differences
between the various card formats are overblown, if not absurd. sd
cards blowing in the wind? give me a break.

I've never had a problem with SD, either, for that matter. But
it's easier to change cards in the middle of an aerial shoot,
sitting out on the skid of a JetRanger at 80kts, when you're
handling a larger card that can be handled quickly with gloves on,
than it is something smaller and lighter, requiring finer fingers.

so now the user has to be wearing gloves and hanging in mid-air? talk
about a contrived scenario.

Really? That was my original premise. I face that scenario at least
once a month every month. In the summer, every weekend.

that sounds like a lot of fun but most people don't do anything
remotely close to that.

And I'm not the only one who faces this. Last boat race I shot there
were three birds in the air.

and how many photographers were on the ground taking photos of baseball
games, weddings, formal portraits, panoramic landscapes, flowers, etc.,
where swapping cards mid-air is not an issue? you do realize, i hope,
that the d300 (or any camera) is not made for *just* aerial
photography.

When I did the aerials this past New Year's day, there were two
photographers aboard and a pilot. Both of us were out of the skin, both
shooting with twin bodies. Both of us wearing gloves, changing cards.

I didn't see anyone telling either of us that it was an edge kind of
scenario.

it's very definitely an edge case. most people take photos while on
the ground and a lot of them are taken indoors where wind won't blow
anything away.

On 6/13/09 22:17 , nospam wrote:
In article
, D Peter
wrote:

Actually, if you look at the wide ranging options in photography,
they all appear to be edge cases, from someone's perspective. But when
you need an option, you need it. In that case, it's anything but an edge
case.

sure, but nikon doesn't build a camera for you specifically. they build
what they think will appeal to most photographers. sd cards are very
popular and not just for cameras, so it makes sense to use them for
future products. sd cards are also less expensive, smaller and more
reliable than compact flash. however, if you need compact flash for
whatever reason, then buy a camera with compact flash. if it's that
important, someone will fill the niche.



Yes, I believe I said that.

Actually, I believe a number of us have.



So, you think there should be only the options you think are
relevant. Thank God you don't get to make that choice. My business
wouldn't exist.

i didn't say it should be the only option, i said that the differences
between the various card formats are overblown, if not absurd. sd
cards blowing in the wind? give me a break.

I've never had a problem with SD, either, for that matter. But
it's easier to change cards in the middle of an aerial shoot,
sitting out on the skid of a JetRanger at 80kts, when you're
handling a larger card that can be handled quickly with gloves on,
than it is something smaller and lighter, requiring finer fingers.
so now the user has to be wearing gloves and hanging in mid-air? talk
about a contrived scenario.
Really? That was my original premise. I face that scenario at least
once a month every month. In the summer, every weekend.

that sounds like a lot of fun but most people don't do anything
remotely close to that.


Most, no. But I know dozens who do.


And I'm not the only one who faces this. Last boat race I shot there
were three birds in the air.

and how many photographers were on the ground taking photos of baseball
games, weddings, formal portraits, panoramic landscapes, flowers, etc.,
where swapping cards mid-air is not an issue? you do realize, i hope,
that the d300 (or any camera) is not made for *just* aerial
photography.


It had occured to me, yes.

But I don't work exclusively with a D300.



When I did the aerials this past New Year's day, there were two
photographers aboard and a pilot. Both of us were out of the skin, both
shooting with twin bodies. Both of us wearing gloves, changing cards.

I didn't see anyone telling either of us that it was an edge kind of
scenario.

it's very definitely an edge case. most people take photos while on
the ground and a lot of them are taken indoors where wind won't blow
anything away.


Most...perhaps. But aerials, outdoors, and high action is hardly
an edge case.

In article , D
Peter Maus wrote:

that sounds like a lot of fun but most people don't do anything
remotely close to that.

Most, no. But I know dozens who do.

dozens? nikon sold millions of cameras last year. it's an edge case.

On 6/13/09 23:05 , nospam wrote:
In , D
Peter wrote:

that sounds like a lot of fun but most people don't do anything
remotely close to that.
Most, no. But I know dozens who do.

dozens? nikon sold millions of cameras last year. it's an edge case.



Your sophistry isn't serving you. I know dozens. I'm only one. I
can't be the only one.

Just by the listings I have at my disposal there are thousands
who do what I do. And thousands more who do other work under difficult
conditions. And stil thousands more who do fairly pedestrian work who
still need to change cards surely, and quickly.

Just because YOU don't do it. Doesn't mean it's an edge case.

Have a good evening. I have an early shoot tomorrow.

Good night, good news, good sex, goodbye.


p

In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

that sounds like a lot of fun but most people don't do anything
remotely close to that.
Most, no. But I know dozens who do.

dozens? nikon sold millions of cameras last year. it's an edge case.

Your sophistry isn't serving you. I know dozens. I'm only one. I
can't be the only one.

i never said you were the only one. what i said was that your
situation is not typical.

Just by the listings I have at my disposal there are thousands
who do what I do. And thousands more who do other work under difficult
conditions. And stil thousands more who do fairly pedestrian work who
still need to change cards surely, and quickly.

yet you have not demonstrated that swapping an sd card in the same
conditions would result in losing the card.

On 06/13/09 23:33, nospam wrote:

yet you have not demonstrated that swapping an sd card in the same
conditions would result in losing the card.




Go back and re read. I didn't say that.

Alan Browne wrote:
On 13-06-09 15:09, Chris H wrote:
In messagecrKdnakle7lLU67XnZ2dnUVZ_rxi4p2d@giganews. com, Alan Browne
writes
On 13-06-09 11:01, Chris H wrote:
In , nospam
writes
In , Bruce
wrote:

If the wind is blowing hard, and you drop a CF card, it will fall to the
ground very near to where you dropped it. Drop an SD card and it will
quite easily just blow away.
that's the most ridiculous thing i've read in a while.
Not if you have just dropped the memory card at night.
the weight difference between a CF and SD
is not a factor.
Which is precisely why Tony's assertion about the wind effects on SD
and CF cards is so ridiculous.

Not if you have to change cards out doors at night.

BTW I know of an industrial instrument maker who uses CF over SD simply
because the physical handling is better. Not so likely to drop them and
easier to find if you do.

I've already states something similar.

It is Tony's assertion that an SD card will somehow 'blow' further than
a CF card. They are of similar density, wind will carry them about the
same distance.

You forget the importance of size at these sizes. A peppercorn is of
similar density to a log, but blows much further.

--
Chris Malcolm

"D. Peter Maus" wrote:

On 06/13/09 14:34, nospam wrote:
In , Chris H
wrote:

Not if you have just dropped the memory card at night.
the weight difference between a CF and SD
is not a factor.
Which is precisely why Tony's assertion about the wind effects on SD
and CF cards is so ridiculous.
Not if you have to change cards out doors at night.

so the effects of wind only matter during the night? if it's windy
during the day the card won't be blown away? this just gets better
with every post.

BTW I know of an industrial instrument maker who uses CF over SD simply
because the physical handling is better. Not so likely to drop them and
easier to find if you do.

wow, one example out of zillions who use sd without any problem.


Sophistry, at best.

It's not how many use any one format without a problem, it's the
cost of having the problem for those who do that makes the issue.

I've never had a problem with SD, either, for that matter. But
it's easier to change cards in the middle of an aerial shoot,
sitting out on the skid of a JetRanger at 80kts, when you're
handling a larger card that can be handled quickly with gloves on,
than it is something smaller and lighter, requiring finer fingers.

In this case, easier means quicker. Quicker means I can return to
shooting faster. Fewer missed shots.

And when you're being paid for a shoot, you can't afford to 1)
Drop a card, 2) miss a shot.

CF cards make that issue less likely because they're larger,
better grip. I can get back to shooting with fewer steps, meaning
fewer missed shots.

There may be smaller, denser, lighter cards that take up less
space. But that's not the issue, here. CF cards are easier to handle
and keep track of in the field. And under adverse conditions that
can mean the difference between a paycheck and a Ramen diet.


SD Cards are fine for people who only rarely change cards out in the
field, such as snapshooters who rarely if ever fill a card, or studio
photographers who spend hours re-arranging inanimate objects on a
lightbox in ever-more boring compositions, and don't often venture out
in daylight.

But for people who actually do change cards in the field, and especially
in less-than-ideal conditions, the robust size and weight of CF cards
make them just about ideal.

There's an obvious divide in the market - cameras aimed at snapshooters
and rank amateurs tend to be SD-equipped, and those aimed at serious and
pro shooters tend to be CF-equipped. As always, there is some crossover
and cameras that will accept both. But you can usually tell a serious
shooter by his/her use of CF even when SD or other consumer-grade
options (such as MS Pro Duo) are available to them.

And you can usually tell an idiot by the irrational howls of displeasure
when the reasons underlying their unthinking choices are pointed out to
them. ;-)

Bruce wrote:
[]
But for people who actually do change cards in the field, and
especially in less-than-ideal conditions, the robust size and weight
of CF cards make them just about ideal.

... but their connection arrangements do not, particularly where dust or
dirt may get into the CF sockets or the camera receptacle. CF cards have
both advantages and disadvantages, but it doesn't bother me what anyone
chooses to use.

David