The UK Plane Spotters Arrested in Greece

This is a subject that deserves its own thread:

On 2008-01-16 19:17:44 -0800, irwell said:


But it is not, as you originally asserted, illegal to take photographs
of airports. Further, the rules have not significantly changed since
9/11.

Except maybe in Greece, weren't a group of airplane spotters,
amateurs who like looking at planes and collecting pictures,
from the UK jailed by the Greeks recently?

We were talking about the US, though. Yeah, the airplane spotters in
Greece were arrested in November, 2001 on charges of 'spying.' They
were held for over a month without any charges at all and they were
denied habeas corpus. Two of them were Dutch, BTW. The other nine were
Britons. They were originally charged with espionage, then the charges
reduced to illegal information gathering. It appeared they might
actually be released on December 13, but the prosecutor unexpectedly
came back with a recommendation that they go to trial. When they
finally went to trial in April, 2002, they were convicted on the
original charges of espionage and sentenced to three years in prison.
They were allowed to return home to prepare their appeals.

The thing is, the Greeks alleged that the spotters knew their activity
was illegal. They had been warned and were attempting to photograph the
airplanes at a military base with concealed cameras. The trouble with
these allegations was that the group was at a public military air show.

Some of the people arrested were not plane spotters themselves, but
spouses who were just along for the trip. The only woman, a 51-year old
grandmother, was held in the notoriously violent women's jail in Athens
where she shared a dormitory with 14 others.

Eleven of the plane spotters were finally acquitted in November 2002,
as were five others charged with providing assistance to them. The
twelfth plane spotter was not acquitted because he did not attend his
appeal due to poor health at the time.

Anyway, whatever you do, do not take photographs of airplanes in
Greece. Do not even seem to be looking at them or taking notes. In
fact, it is best if you avoid studying birds there, too. One Greek
court official said that perhaps plane spotting was understandable in a
country like Britain, where the weather was bad all the time and might
drive people crazy. But in Greece there was no excuse for engaging in
such a hobby because the sun was shining all the time.

Greece has never apologized for their outrageous treatment of these
plane spotters, the suspension of their legal and civil rights, and
their imprisonment in filthy overcrowded conditions. The prosecutor
allowed that spies usually do not travel in large groups on tour buses
in broad daylight, but said that the information the people were
gathering could, under other circumstances, have been used to harm
Greece. He could not say how.

Relations between Greece and Britain were severely damaged by the
incident and the negative publicity was not good for tourism in Greece.
Another such incident would probably cause all the western countries to
issue travel warnings against Greece.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"C J Campbell" a écrit dans le message de
news: 2008011707451075249-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
This is a subject that deserves its own thread:

On 2008-01-16 19:17:44 -0800, irwell said:


But it is not, as you originally asserted, illegal to take photographs
of airports. Further, the rules have not significantly changed since
9/11.

Except maybe in Greece, weren't a group of airplane spotters,
amateurs who like looking at planes and collecting pictures,
from the UK jailed by the Greeks recently?

We were talking about the US, though. Yeah, the airplane spotters in
Greece were arrested in November, 2001 on charges of 'spying.' They were
held for over a month without any charges at all and they were denied
habeas corpus. Two of them were Dutch, BTW. The other nine were Britons.
They were originally charged with espionage, then the charges reduced to
illegal information gathering. It appeared they might actually be released
on December 13, but the prosecutor unexpectedly came back with a
recommendation that they go to trial. When they finally went to trial in
April, 2002, they were convicted on the original charges of espionage and
sentenced to three years in prison. They were allowed to return home to
prepare their appeals.

The thing is, the Greeks alleged that the spotters knew their activity was
illegal. They had been warned and were attempting to photograph the
airplanes at a military base with concealed cameras. The trouble with
these allegations was that the group was at a public military air show.

Some of the people arrested were not plane spotters themselves, but
spouses who were just along for the trip. The only woman, a 51-year old
grandmother, was held in the notoriously violent women's jail in Athens
where she shared a dormitory with 14 others.

Eleven of the plane spotters were finally acquitted in November 2002, as
were five others charged with providing assistance to them. The twelfth
plane spotter was not acquitted because he did not attend his appeal due
to poor health at the time.

Anyway, whatever you do, do not take photographs of airplanes in Greece.
Do not even seem to be looking at them or taking notes. In fact, it is
best if you avoid studying birds there, too. One Greek court official said
that perhaps plane spotting was understandable in a country like Britain,
where the weather was bad all the time and might drive people crazy. But
in Greece there was no excuse for engaging in such a hobby because the sun
was shining all the time.

Greece has never apologized for their outrageous treatment of these plane
spotters, the suspension of their legal and civil rights, and their
imprisonment in filthy overcrowded conditions. The prosecutor allowed that
spies usually do not travel in large groups on tour buses in broad
daylight, but said that the information the people were gathering could,
under other circumstances, have been used to harm Greece. He could not say
how.

Relations between Greece and Britain were severely damaged by the incident
and the negative publicity was not good for tourism in Greece. Another
such incident would probably cause all the western countries to issue
travel warnings against Greece.


This could have placed Greece on the list of the countries the US will
invade next if they had been US citizens ;-)

Jean

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:22:48 -0500, "jean" wrote:


This could have placed Greece on the list of the countries the US will
invade next if they had been US citizens ;-)

Hush! GWB might read this and think that Ouzo bin Laden is hiding in
Greece. Worse, he might send a surge to an Olive Garden thinking it's
a code word for cache of WMDs.



--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"tony cooper" a écrit dans le message de
news: ...
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:22:48 -0500, "jean" wrote:


This could have placed Greece on the list of the countries the US will
invade next if they had been US citizens ;-)

Hush! GWB might read this and think that Ouzo bin Laden is hiding in
Greece. Worse, he might send a surge to an Olive Garden thinking it's
a code word for cache of WMDs.


LOL "Ouzo Bin Laden" really good one ;-)

Jean

On 2008-01-17 13:19:44 -0800, tony cooper said:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:22:48 -0500, "jean" wrote:


This could have placed Greece on the list of the countries the US will
invade next if they had been US citizens ;-)

Hush! GWB might read this and think that Ouzo bin Laden is hiding in
Greece. Worse, he might send a surge to an Olive Garden thinking it's
a code word for cache of WMDs.

Good idea. I think I will surge on over to Olive Garden myself. :-)

Greece has been trying to provoke America into invading for decades.
Their plan is to immediately surrender and start applying for
reconstruction money.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:28:37 -0800, C J Campbell
wrote:

On 2008-01-17 13:19:44 -0800, tony cooper said:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:22:48 -0500, "jean" wrote:


This could have placed Greece on the list of the countries the US will
invade next if they had been US citizens ;-)

Hush! GWB might read this and think that Ouzo bin Laden is hiding in
Greece. Worse, he might send a surge to an Olive Garden thinking it's
a code word for cache of WMDs.

Good idea. I think I will surge on over to Olive Garden myself. :-)

Greece has been trying to provoke America into invading for decades.
Their plan is to immediately surrender and start applying for
reconstruction money.

They got that idea from "The Mouse That Roared". (1959)


--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 2008-01-17 21:47:25 -0800, tony cooper said:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:28:37 -0800, C J Campbell
wrote:

On 2008-01-17 13:19:44 -0800, tony cooper said:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:22:48 -0500, "jean" wrote:


This could have placed Greece on the list of the countries the US will
invade next if they had been US citizens ;-)

Hush! GWB might read this and think that Ouzo bin Laden is hiding in
Greece. Worse, he might send a surge to an Olive Garden thinking it's
a code word for cache of WMDs.

Good idea. I think I will surge on over to Olive Garden myself. :-)

Greece has been trying to provoke America into invading for decades.
Their plan is to immediately surrender and start applying for
reconstruction money.

They got that idea from "The Mouse That Roared". (1959)


One of my favorite movies. "My idea was sound. Only an idiot could have
won this war, and he did."

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"C J Campbell" wrote
news:2008011720283750073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...

(snip)

Greece has been trying to provoke America into invading for decades. Their
plan is to immediately surrender and start applying for reconstruction
money.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor


Not before demanding American citizenship with full rights!!!!!!!
(George from cloudy Athens)

C J Campbell wrote:

This is a subject that deserves its own thread:


The thing is, the Greeks alleged that the spotters knew their activity
was illegal. They had been warned and were attempting to photograph the
airplanes at a military base with concealed cameras. The trouble with
these allegations was that the group was at a public military air show.

I think that you were misinformed.
These plane spotters weren't in a public air show, but trying to shoot
photos with telephoto lenses outside of an air base.

Now, try to shoot photos of a US air base without a permit and let they
arrest you while you are leaning on top of a barbed fence as these spotters
were... :-

N.F.

On Jan 24, 10:00 pm, Nick Fotis wrote:
C J Campbell wrote:
This is a subject that deserves its own thread:

The thing is, the Greeks alleged that the spotters knew their activity
was illegal. They had been warned and were attempting to photograph the
airplanes at a military base with concealed cameras. The trouble with
these allegations was that the group was at a public military air show.

I think that you were misinformed.
These plane spotters weren't in a public air show, but trying to shoot
photos with telephoto lenses outside of an air base.

Now, try to shoot photos of a US air base without a permit and let they
arrest you while you are leaning on top of a barbed fence as these spotters
were... :-


Hey Nick,
Have you ever heard the phrase "never argue with idiots..." etc? It
applies perfectly to the current thread
Achilleas