Best Online camera shop?

Although B&H is well regarded by most

Thanks.

(others than me),

Not for lack of trying.

in fact they do charge your card on order submission for back-ordered items.

And we're always SCRUPULOUS about telling the customer this before the order's
committed.

Although this is generally considered abusive,

Actually, it's considered "abusive" by a mere handful of individuals. The
overwhelming majority don't seem to mind. Disappointing that someonw would so
causally generalize like this though.

ask 'em; they will confirm and provide a "justification".?

Is it a "justification" or an explanation? Does it really make a difference?
- --

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Charging your credit card before they ship the item is stealing. Plain and
simple.

No, it's not. Taking someone's property without their permission is stealing.

In the business it's called "hammering"

I have to admit I have never heard this used in this contexct before and after
a google search I coul;dn't come up with any hits.

and it's a way to generate a large float with the bank which keeps the
business from having to borrow money for operations from the bank at high
interest rates.

This is naive beyond belief. First, interest rates these days are below 1%, so
even if this was a viable option, the returnb would be pennies. Second, the
time and expense of managing an operation of this size makes it unwieldy and
unprofitable, unless you're a bank or have nothing else to do all day. That
lets most legit retailers out. Anyone who thinks a retailer who sells you a
camera on Monday and doesn't ship it until Thursday is making big $$$ Tuesday
and Wednesday is simply wrong. Plain and simple.
- --

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Charging your credit card before they ship the item is stealing. Plain and
simple.

No, it's not. Taking someone's property without their permission is stealing.

In the business it's called "hammering"

I have to admit I have never heard this used in this contexct before and after
a google search I coul;dn't come up with any hits.

and it's a way to generate a large float with the bank which keeps the
business from having to borrow money for operations from the bank at high
interest rates.

This is naive beyond belief. First, interest rates these days are below 1%, so
even if this was a viable option, the returnb would be pennies. Second, the
time and expense of managing an operation of this size makes it unwieldy and
unprofitable, unless you're a bank or have nothing else to do all day. That
lets most legit retailers out. Anyone who thinks a retailer who sells you a
camera on Monday and doesn't ship it until Thursday is making big $$$ Tuesday
and Wednesday is simply wrong. Plain and simple.
- --

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Although B&H is well regarded by most

Thanks.

(others than me),

Not for lack of trying.

in fact they do charge your card on order submission for back-ordered items.

And we're always SCRUPULOUS about telling the customer this before the order's
committed.

Although this is generally considered abusive,

Actually, it's considered "abusive" by a mere handful of individuals. The
overwhelming majority don't seem to mind. Disappointing that someonw would so
causally generalize like this though.

ask 'em; they will confirm and provide a "justification".?

Is it a "justification" or an explanation? Does it really make a difference?
- --

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

BandHPhoto wrote:

Charging your credit card before they ship the item is stealing. Plain and
simple.

No, it's not. Taking someone's property without their permission is stealing.

In the business it's called "hammering"

I have to admit I have never heard this used in this contexct before and after
a google search I coul;dn't come up with any hits.

and it's a way to generate a large float with the bank which keeps the
business from having to borrow money for operations from the bank at high
interest rates.

This is naive beyond belief. First, interest rates these days are below 1%, so
even if this was a viable option, the returnb would be pennies. Second, the
time and expense of managing an operation of this size makes it unwieldy and
unprofitable, unless you're a bank or have nothing else to do all day. That
lets most legit retailers out. Anyone who thinks a retailer who sells you a
camera on Monday and doesn't ship it until Thursday is making big $$$ Tuesday
and Wednesday is simply wrong. Plain and simple.
- --

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com


It's not all that naive. Borrowing from the bank isn't the problem.
Creditworthiness is the problem. It's not unknown for retailers who have
cashflow problems to be unable to borrow from the bank, so they will use
the customer's money to buy in the goods for the customer, when the
retailer doesn't have sufficient creditworthiness to buy first and sell
later. I see this as unethical, because part at least of his mark-up is
recompense for his outlay in stocking the item for sale. He has no
outlay if he uses the customer's money to buy in the goods, therefore he
is not entitled to the same mark-up, but he will take it nevertheless.

Selling an item on Monday and not shipping till Thursday is an obvious
pointer to the retailer using your money to buy in the item, which by
inference means he is on the edge of insolvency, and you run the risk of
losing both your money and the item. If he sinks before Thursday, you
are in the unsecured creditors pile, and will most likely not get a cent
back.

It's not quite like buying a burger at McDonalds, where you pay first
and get your burger 20 seconds later. Part of the rationale for
charging the customer before the item is shipped is where the item
ordered is not part of the retailers normal inventory, and if the
customer backs out the retailer is left with unwanted goods. But in
that case the onus is on the retailer to point this out to the
customer. Where the ordered item is part of the retailer's normal
inventory, he would be re-ordering whether or not the customer places an
order, so there is no justification for up-front charging.

Colin D.

BandHPhoto wrote:

Charging your credit card before they ship the item is stealing. Plain and
simple.

No, it's not. Taking someone's property without their permission is stealing.

In the business it's called "hammering"

I have to admit I have never heard this used in this contexct before and after
a google search I coul;dn't come up with any hits.

and it's a way to generate a large float with the bank which keeps the
business from having to borrow money for operations from the bank at high
interest rates.

This is naive beyond belief. First, interest rates these days are below 1%, so
even if this was a viable option, the returnb would be pennies. Second, the
time and expense of managing an operation of this size makes it unwieldy and
unprofitable, unless you're a bank or have nothing else to do all day. That
lets most legit retailers out. Anyone who thinks a retailer who sells you a
camera on Monday and doesn't ship it until Thursday is making big $$$ Tuesday
and Wednesday is simply wrong. Plain and simple.
- --

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com


It's not all that naive. Borrowing from the bank isn't the problem.
Creditworthiness is the problem. It's not unknown for retailers who have
cashflow problems to be unable to borrow from the bank, so they will use
the customer's money to buy in the goods for the customer, when the
retailer doesn't have sufficient creditworthiness to buy first and sell
later. I see this as unethical, because part at least of his mark-up is
recompense for his outlay in stocking the item for sale. He has no
outlay if he uses the customer's money to buy in the goods, therefore he
is not entitled to the same mark-up, but he will take it nevertheless.

Selling an item on Monday and not shipping till Thursday is an obvious
pointer to the retailer using your money to buy in the item, which by
inference means he is on the edge of insolvency, and you run the risk of
losing both your money and the item. If he sinks before Thursday, you
are in the unsecured creditors pile, and will most likely not get a cent
back.

It's not quite like buying a burger at McDonalds, where you pay first
and get your burger 20 seconds later. Part of the rationale for
charging the customer before the item is shipped is where the item
ordered is not part of the retailers normal inventory, and if the
customer backs out the retailer is left with unwanted goods. But in
that case the onus is on the retailer to point this out to the
customer. Where the ordered item is part of the retailer's normal
inventory, he would be re-ordering whether or not the customer places an
order, so there is no justification for up-front charging.

Colin D.

"BandHPhoto" wrote in message
...
Charging your credit card before they ship the item is stealing. Plain
and
simple.

No, it's not. Taking someone's property without their permission is
stealing.


Well, I've got to admit that I never thought he would stoop down this low to
defend his practice of charging a credit card before the item was in and
ready to ship. Taking someone's property without their permission is
stealing alright, but taking someone's money without their permission is
also stealing. If the customer orders something and doesn't know that his
credit card is being charged before the item is in and shipping, then I
consider this stealing, too. If the customer knows about it, then it isn't.

I like B&H, but I don't like this practice, and I don't like him defending
it. It is just bad business.

Clyde Torres

"BandHPhoto" wrote in message
...
Charging your credit card before they ship the item is stealing. Plain
and
simple.

No, it's not. Taking someone's property without their permission is
stealing.


Well, I've got to admit that I never thought he would stoop down this low to
defend his practice of charging a credit card before the item was in and
ready to ship. Taking someone's property without their permission is
stealing alright, but taking someone's money without their permission is
also stealing. If the customer orders something and doesn't know that his
credit card is being charged before the item is in and shipping, then I
consider this stealing, too. If the customer knows about it, then it isn't.

I like B&H, but I don't like this practice, and I don't like him defending
it. It is just bad business.

Clyde Torres

"BandHPhoto" wrote in message
...
Charging your credit card before they ship the item is stealing. Plain
and
simple.

No, it's not. Taking someone's property without their permission is
stealing.


Well, I've got to admit that I never thought he would stoop down this low to
defend his practice of charging a credit card before the item was in and
ready to ship. Taking someone's property without their permission is
stealing alright, but taking someone's money without their permission is
also stealing. If the customer orders something and doesn't know that his
credit card is being charged before the item is in and shipping, then I
consider this stealing, too. If the customer knows about it, then it isn't.

I like B&H, but I don't like this practice, and I don't like him defending
it. It is just bad business.

Clyde Torres

Clyde Torres wrote:
"BandHPhoto" wrote in message
...
Charging your credit card before they ship the item is stealing.
Plain and simple.

No, it's not. Taking someone's property without their permission is
stealing.


Well, I've got to admit that I never thought he would stoop down this
low to defend his practice of charging a credit card before the item
was in and ready to ship. Taking someone's property without their
permission is stealing alright, but taking someone's money without
their permission is also stealing. If the customer orders something
and doesn't know that his credit card is being charged before the
item is in and shipping, then I consider this stealing, too. If the
customer knows about it, then it isn't.

I like B&H, but I don't like this practice, and I don't like him
defending it. It is just bad business.

Clyde Torres

I agree. I like shopping at B&H, and I've bought a fair amount of stuff
from them over the years. I've always found them to be honest in sales,
and prompt with shipping, Their policy of charging credit cards up front
for out of stock goods is the one tacky thing they do (even though
they're up front about it), and I dislike that they defend the practice
(through Henry on this forum). I do quite a bit of mail order shopping,
and B&H is one of the very few businesses that I've found that does
this. Most will accept your order, and bill your card when the item
ships.