Best Online camera shop?

Kevin wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:37:42 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Stuff it Kevin. Frankly if B&H lose you as a customer it is no loss to them.
For everyone like you that has a problem with them they have a thousand giving
them 10/10 ratings. Further, if you do have probems they're more than willing
to do their end to fix things as best possible.


Really? So, how exactly did they "do their end to fix things as
possible" in my case? I ordered something on Thursday, before the
same-day shipping deadline, paid for overnight shipping, and didn't
receive the item until noon Saturday. And the ONLY reason I got it
that "quickly" is because *** I *** told them they needed to upgrade
the shipment to Saturday delivery. They certainly didn't offer to do
it on their own, nor did they offer to discount the shipping to the
appropriate rate, which would've knocked a big chunk off of the total
price.

Again, you took a big risk by ordering close to deadline. Very unreasonable for
critical items. Did B&H perform as well as expected? No they didn't. But I
would think if this was so important to you, you would have planned better.
Maybe you have a lot more money than I do, becasue I certainly would not order
"...about a thousand bucks worth of equipment" at the last minute before a trip
where that equipment was critical. I'd want time to receive it, verifiy it and
get to know it before an outing.


So please Alan, tell me exactly how they were "more than willing to do
their end to fix things as best possible." Let's hear it, Alan. Put
up or shut up.

Okay, glad you asked.

1) Last year I ordered an incident meter from them. It was listed at $239.95 on
the web at the moment that I ordered it. I checked some details on the web on
the day after I ordered it and the price had fallen by $20. I was surprised. A
toll free 10 minute call fixed it and the amount was credited to my CC.

(And by the way, I needed that meter for the following Saturday ... I ordered it
on a Monday... )

2) A couple years ago I ordered an 80-200 f/2.8 lens which is quite pricy. When
I received it, the rear lens cap was dislodged. (Fortunately no damage) I
complained about this to B&H, blaming it on their packing methods. They agreed
and stated that they were in the midst of changing their methods at that time to
address my (and others customers) concerns in that regard.


When ordering something for the weekend do you always wait until the last
minute? That is poor planning. Where I work we fire people for that.


Your company would fire someone for placing an order for personal
items on Thursday and requesting overnight delivery so they'd have the
items on Friday? I have no idea why your company would even care what

No, as long as people do their personal "business" during breaks and use toll
free, we don't mind at all if they screw up for themselves).

We would discipline and ulimately fire him for poor planning on company orders
(where of course the plan was in place before) at the last minute.

you're buying on your own time, much less how you're buying it. I
don't handle the shipping where I work but I do know it's pretty
routine for us to receive overnight shipping requests on Thursdays. I
also know we get them out.

100%? Few companies manage perfect ordering or deliveries. Errors happen.
Where the need for an order is perceived in an advance there is no excuse for
the order being placed at the last minute as that surely leads to errors and
probability of late arrivals.


Having just started with Cisco a few months ago, I tend to have very
little time off and very little advance notice when I do.

Then I suggest that you plan in advance for the day you do and not depend on
last minute orders.



They thought you lived in Texas 'cause your card said Texas? Where do your get
off blaming them for you actually being in CA? The jerk-off appears to be you.


No, the jerk-off appears to be you. B&H was told up front that the
billing address was a Texas address, so it's not like there was any
deception or discrepant/missing information involved. If they had a
problem with it they should've contacted me right away or had the
sytem reject the charge. Instead, they put the charge through and
later decided to call me at 6:00am to hassle me about it. They had
everything they needed to contact me here in California to clarify
this on Thursday. Instead of doing that, they called a vacant home in
Texas and left a message on my renter's machine.

I can hardly see your justification for getting upset with them when you are not
at your home of record. A more clear case of chaos connected to poor
communication I can't dredge up:

1) You don't live where B&H believe you live, they have two different addresses
to worry about (raises their "fraud" flag).

2) You wait until the last minute to order an over night delivery (begs errors).

3) You tell them "B&H was told up front that the
billing address was a Texas address" but you expect them to realize your
phone is two time zones away? (Let me guess, your cell phone number is still
Texas?).

Jerk-offs tend to complicate things for themselves and others, so wear the shoe,
it appears to fit you quite comfortably.

B&H are fraud conscious. Period. So they do verification.


Not very well.

Extremely well, actually. It's cases like yours that they are attempting to
sort out as that it is damned close to how fraud works.



"wasting airtime"? Give me a break, who the hell even cares about cell air time
these days?


Those of us who travel a lot, use it to keep in touch with friends and
family, and have to pay 40 cents a minute for going over our
allotment. When you live in San Jose, which is something like the
fifth most expensive place in the US to live, 40 cents counts.

If you travel that much and communicate with all those folks, you should have a
plan that accounts for it.

And with respect to B&H you are firmly in the minority among camera equipment
buyers.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:16:49 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

No, the jerk-off appears to be you. B&H was told up front that the
billing address was a Texas address, so it's not like there was any
deception or discrepant/missing information involved. If they had a
problem with it they should've contacted me right away or had the
sytem reject the charge. Instead, they put the charge through and
later decided to call me at 6:00am to hassle me about it. They had
everything they needed to contact me here in California to clarify
this on Thursday. Instead of doing that, they called a vacant home in
Texas and left a message on my renter's machine.

I can hardly see your justification for getting upset with them when you are not
at your home of record. A more clear case of chaos connected to poor
communication I can't dredge up:

1) You don't live where B&H believe you live, they have two different addresses
to worry about (raises their "fraud" flag).

2) You wait until the last minute to order an over night delivery (begs errors).

3) You tell them "B&H was told up front that the
billing address was a Texas address" but you expect them to realize your
phone is two time zones away? (Let me guess, your cell phone number is still
Texas?).

Alright, one more and I'm done with this thread. People can decide
for themselves what to make of it.

To address your points: #1) B&H could've cleared this up in a minute
or two by simply calling one of the numbers I gave them on the order
form. Instead, they went strictly by the billing records and left a
message on a machine 2000 miles from here. When they finally did use
common sense and use the contact numbers given to them on the order
form, the "problem" was resolved within minutes. Of course, they
still refused to make things easy. The fastest way to resolve the
problem was simply to use a different card with my new address and
phone. So I did. Even that wasn't good enough, despite the fact that
the address and phone numbers matched what I provided on the order
form. They still insisted on calling the cell phone to make sure I
answered. At this point it was getting ridiculous, but I needed the
gear so I went along with it. Even after giving them a CC with
billing info that matched my current address, they still made it
difficult. Just FYI, before coming to CA to work in the private
sector, I was with the US Secret Service working identity theft cases,
so I do know a bit about the subject. I figured they'd probably
contact me using the contact info provided to them by me. Instead,
they had to do things the hard (stupid) way.

#2) Depending on overnight delivery may beg errors, but there is a
reason they offer overnight delivery: some people need it. In my
case, my mentor at the company got sick which opened the door for some
travel and photography over the weekend. Besides, there were no
errors as far as me getting exactly what I ordered, so had
verification either stayed out of it or done a better job, we wouldn't
be having this discussion.

#3) The delivery address was in California, as was the cell phone
number. Common sense would dictate that the customer was probably in
California and was three hours behind New York. I.e. the customer
probably doesn't want a 6:00am wake-up call from B&H.

B&H are fraud conscious. Period. So they do verification.

Not very well.

Extremely well, actually. It's cases like yours that they are attempting to
sort out as that it is damned close to how fraud works.

Given the fact that the order was legit and their fraud
countermeasures delayed delivery by a day (and resulted in me being
ripped off on shipping), I wouldn't say they're a phenomenal success.

And with respect to B&H you are firmly in the minority among camera equipment
buyers.

If the majority had to deal with these people personally, I doubt that
would be the case. My previous experiences with B&H have been great,
which is why I ordered from them this time. Unfortunately, they
completely dropped the ball this time and they did so badly enough to
outweigh all of the positive experiences I've had in the past. End of
story.

... idiots in verification ... they were assholes ... anal-retentiveness ...
the jerk-off ... this crap ...

Nice.

I'll be happy to look int the particulars of this situation when B&H reopens
after the Sukkoth hoilday hiatus. In general, if the information the customer
gives us for the bill-to data doesn't match what the bank which issued the
credit card has, the bank requires we halt the order process until we can
determine if the transaction is fraudulent or legitimate. Calling a customer on
other than the listed bill-to phone is fruitless, since any phone # other than
the listed bill-to number could simply belong to the pirate who attempting to
use some legit person's credit card.

Had this been some pirate trying to use your card and we'd stopped him with
this prudent but necessary system, what would you have said then? (That's a
rhetorical question, by the way).
- --

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

... idiots in verification ... they were assholes ... anal-retentiveness ...
the jerk-off ... this crap ...

Nice.

I'll be happy to look int the particulars of this situation when B&H reopens
after the Sukkoth hoilday hiatus. In general, if the information the customer
gives us for the bill-to data doesn't match what the bank which issued the
credit card has, the bank requires we halt the order process until we can
determine if the transaction is fraudulent or legitimate. Calling a customer on
other than the listed bill-to phone is fruitless, since any phone # other than
the listed bill-to number could simply belong to the pirate who attempting to
use some legit person's credit card.

Had this been some pirate trying to use your card and we'd stopped him with
this prudent but necessary system, what would you have said then? (That's a
rhetorical question, by the way).
- --

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com