Video: WTC Witnesses: "It was definitely no commercial airliner"

On Sep 15, 7:01 am, "Jonathan" wrote:
wrote:
In misc.survivalism Jonathan wrote:


snip

Gee I saw no strange looking guys hiding anything under their
coats. Man you are one NutJob. There are plenty of ways to place
charges anywhere they wanted.

Has anyone come up with a credible scenario? I'd love to see it.

So you want someone to make up a story about how it could happen? Some
fantasy that you guys like to engage in? Where is the security of such a
building and who checks out each maintenance worker that enters and leaves?
Do you know for sure that no one could have possibly entered at any time to
do what needed to be done? There is always a possibility that anything could
happen and just because there is no proof positive one way or the other than
this means nothing. Who would have believed that 911 could have occurred in
the first place? Reasonable suspicion is all that it needed to create doubt
and many people have plenty of that. To think that everything is as it is
told to you is the absolute truth is pretty lame and to try to argue that
way is just a loony and someone that doubt what is fed to them.


snip

When you can come up with some way that hundreds of workers working
for months on end, stripping walls, making one huge mess, hauling
away tones of the debris that was made getting access to the columns,
cutting notches in beams, stringing miles of det cord, without anyone
noticing then the sane people here will listen. Until then your
disbeif is flat kookery.

The hundreds of men is probably too many but the crew would have been
big. The 'months on end' is accurate. It would take that long to
prepare a building the size of the WTCs for demo.

Watch a show on controlled demolions some time, the History channel
runs them occasionally. Here is a clue, just prior to detonation, you
can look clear through the building - that is how much stuff has been
removed.

But of course you will still somehow believe that all that is possible
without being noticed.

Harry K

Harry K

Well, this is BS, but I've always wondered about that crash into the
Pentagon. Look at this chronology, and see if they mention a jet crashing
into the Pentagon:

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack/

And if a jet did hit the Pentagon, where's the wing damage? Seems like a
very narrow slice of damage for a jet with a 200' wingspan (guess).

In article et,
Jonathan wrote:
wrote:
In misc.survivalism Jonathan wrote:

I can't get past the "controlled demolition" explanation. I've
worked in a bunch of skyscrapers. Workmen are always questioned.
And planting explosives secretly amongst tens of thousands of bored
busybodies seems like a difficult task to me. That work is done by
specialty firms. Lots and lots of manhours would be needed for two
giant buildigs. It seems unlikely to me that the work could have
been carried out in secret.

Gee I saw no strange looking guys hiding anything under their
coats. Man you are one NutJob. There are plenty of ways to place
charges anywhere they wanted.

Has anyone come up with a credible scenario? I'd love to see it.

So you want someone to make up a story about how it could happen? Some
fantasy that you guys like to engage in? Where is the security of such a
building and who checks out each maintenance worker that enters and leaves?
Do you know for sure that no one could have possibly entered at any time to



It's platitudes like the above that identify those of the "Truth
Movement" as having no experience in whatever it is they ramble on
about. I've managed the cnstruction and operation of full floors of
24x7 computer operations in large Manhattan buildings.

After the 1993 bombing WTC was very secure. Planted bombs would be
hundreds to thousands of pounds of material and a large crew. Nobody
uses the loading docks without advance notice and paperwork, day or
night. Nobody uses the elevators to move material at night without
advance notice. freight Elevators are very busy. IME, you never have
one by yourself, if only becuase they have a human operator.

The night crews in a bulding know each other. They talk. They talk to
strangers. Nobody tells them to "leave for a security check".


On a lighter note, Anyone that hasn't seen Gound Zero and the kooks
that hang out there should look at the first two videos. The others
should be required viewing by anyone that has an opinion about 9/11
and WTC.


Ground Zero 911 Conspiracy Wars by Ray Rivera http://rayrivera.net
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...15283354424113

The Ground Zeros by Mark Roberts
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...37229146&hl=en

The Naudet Film about 9/11 at WTC
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12957&q=Naudet

Marks's collapse video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...95848233&hl=en

WTC Ground Zero 9/11/2007 Sad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2LeCXXIjo


"The 9 - 11 Conspiracies - Fact or Fiction"
http://www.torrentbox.com/torrent_details?id=125450



--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

In article hlSGi.737$6B2.374@trndny04, Kinon O'Cann wrote:
Well, this is BS, but I've always wondered about that crash into the
Pentagon. Look at this chronology, and see if they mention a jet crashing
into the Pentagon:

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack/

And if a jet did hit the Pentagon, where's the wing damage? Seems like a
very narrow slice of damage for a jet with a 200' wingspan (guess).



Put anything said in that website in the context of all the eye
witnesses and phyical evidence. Especially that smoking hole in the
Pentagon with all the 757 wreckage and the body parts, as witnessed by
hundreds of first responders and who's DNA matches that of the family
members of the people booked to ride on the plane.

Details of engine parts found at Pentagon
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...cy/q0265.shtml

Black boxes recovered and analyzed
http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf

Info on the tapes
http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_6068.shtml

More eye witnesses same-day reporting
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...01/attack.html

Transcript of CNN broadcast of 1PM 9-11, eyewitness
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../11/bn.32.html

Perdue simulation of 757 impact
http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/....Pentagon.html

DNA matches with family members matches all but one of Pax on Flt77
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2006/9.11/index.html

Video of Phanton hitting wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--_RGM4Abv8



89 eyewitnesses. Put any of them or any other name you come up with
into this custom search ans see what they said. Everyone saw a plane
flying at the pentagon. nobody saw that plane fly over teh pentagon and
leave.

http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=01...%3Ahx2yxincxdu

Anderson Steve
Anlauf Deb & Jeff
Artman, Stuart ***
Banton, Ralph
Barbara
Battle, David
Bauer Gary
Baxter, John, Col.
Bease, Maurice
Bell Mickey
Benedetto Richard
Biggert Judy
Birdwell Brian
Boger Sean ****
Bouchoux Donald R.
Bowman John
Bradley, Pam
Braman Chris
Brennan, Donald
Bright Mark
Brooks, Chadwick
Brown Ervin
Bryceland, Frank
Campo, Omar
Candelario, Joseph
Carroll, Susan
Cissell James R.
Clem, Dennis
Cleveland Allen
Clodfelter, George
Close, Bernadette
Cook Scott P.
Cox, Richard (Arlington po)
Creed Dan
Damoose
Day Wayne T.
DeChiaro Steve
Defina
DiPaula Michael
Dobbs Mike
Donley, Daryl
Dougherty Jill
Dubill Bob
Dyson, John
Eberle Bobby Pilot
Eiden Steve
Elgas Penny
Elhallan, Aziz Pilot
Elliott Bruce
Evey Walker Lee
Faram Mark
Flyler Kim
Ford Ken
Fortunato Don
Foust, Barry (Arlington po)
Frost Stephen S.
Gaines Kat
Gaskins, Fred
Gerard, Steven
Gerson, Mike
Hagos Afework
Hahr, Matt
Harrington Joe
Hemphill Albert
Henson Jerry
Hernandez, Eugenio
Hovis Tom
Hudson, Ed
Hunt Bob
Hurst, Joe
Ingledue, Jim (VBFD)
James, Isabel
James, Michael
Jarvis Will
Johnson, Megan
Jones, Eric
Kaiser, Andrea
Kean Terrance
Keglovich, James
Kelly, Lesley
Khavkin D. S.
Kirk Mark Steven
Kizildrgli Aydan
Kopf, Peter
Krohn Charles H.
Krug, Ann
Lagasse William
Le Grand, La Verne
Leibner Lincoln
Leonard, Robert
Lyman, Mary
Marra David
Martinez Oscar
Mason, Don
McClain Tom
McClellan Kenneth
McCoy, Steve (eng. 101)
McCusker Elaine
McGraw Stephen
McNair Phil
Middleton William Sr.
Milburn Kirk
Mitchell Terry
Mitchell, Mitch
Mondul, Steve
Moody Sheila
Morin Terry
Mosley James
Munsey Christopher
Murphy Peter M.
Murray, Patty (Senator)
Narayanan Vin
Neri, Michael
O'Keefe John
Owens Mary Ann
Pak, Zinovy
Patterson Steve
Perkal Don
Perry, Scott
Peterson Christine
Petitt, Mark
Pfeilstucker Daniel C. Jr
Plaisted, Linda
Powell, Reginald
Probst Frank
Ragland Clyde
Ramey, Wanda
Regnery Alfred S.
Renzi Rick
Riskus, Steve
Robbins James S
Rodriguez Meseidy
Rosati Arthur
Roser, John F.
Royster, Joseph
Ryan James
Ryan, Darb (Vice Admir)
Sabre, Qawly
Schickler Rob
Scott Don
Seibert Tom
Sepulveda Noel
Shaeffer Kevin
Sheuerman Philip
Singleton Jack
Skarlet
Slater Mike
Smiley, Elizabeth
Smith, Dennis
Snaman, Steve
Snavel Dewey
Sorenson, Kristopher Leigh
Stanley, G.T.
Stephens Levi
Storage Tech. Employees
Storti, Steve
Stuart, Chris
Sucherman Joel
Sustern, Greta
Sutherland Jim
Tamillow Michael
Taylor, Shari
Terronez Tony
Thompson Carla
Thompson Phillip
Ticknor Henry (minister)
Timmerman Don "Tim" Pilot
Tinyk, Michael
Trapasso, Thomas
Turner Ron
Unidentified witness on video
Vaughan, Clyde (Brig. Gen)
Velasquez Jose
Vera, Michael
Wallace Alan
Wallace Terry
Walter Mike
Washington, Rodney
Wheelhouse Keith
Winslow Dave
Wright Don
Wyatt Ian
Wyatt, Ian
Yates John
Yeingst William
Zakheim Madelyn

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

In article et,
Jonathan wrote:
Al Dykes wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
In misc.survivalism Al Dykes wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
In misc.survivalism Al Dykes wrote:
In 1993, a 1000 pound bomb in the basement of a tower was loud
enough to be heard for blocks around and by everyone inside the
complex and powerful enough to destroy several floors of
reinforced concrete yet it was nowhere close to weakening the
tower's structure. In 2001, any bombs would have to be as bigger
and louder to have any effect.

Naw, you could use many small charges, accurately placed. But
that would require a lot of work, which ISTM would be impossible
to do undetected.



Small charges ? laugh out loud

The 1000 pound bomb in 1993 destroyed several levels of reinforced
concrete yet didn't come close to damaging the structure. It was
hear for blocks around.

That is very different from a controled demolition. My
understanding is that small, strategically placed charges are used.
They cut through structural members in a precise order, to use
gravity for help in the demolition. Indeed, it is my understanding
that the compnies that ddo such work pride themselves on using the
least amount of explosives possible, for reasons of both safety and
economy.


Like this demolition job?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ

I figure that the microphine is about a half a mile away from the
blast.

(That building is about one twentieth the size of either WTC1, 2, or
7. That means that each WTC tower is about 8,000 times as massive and
that the largest beams are that much stonger.)


There is no audio/video record or eyewitness report of explosions of
size and timing and placement consistant with the collapses of any of
the buildings at WTC.

There are plenty of video where you can hear an explosion long after the
towers were hit. You know this as well as anyone else. You enjoy remaining a
clown don't you? You love to pretend and lie also.




But did whay yo say happen just prior to a collapse? No.

There is no eyewitness or audio/video record of any explosions of
size, placement, timing or brisance [2], that immediatly preceeds any
tower collapse.

The core beams were boxes 36x12, and 2 inches thick. [1] That is 200
squuare inches of solid steel.

Why to Truthers think that the cutting charges for these beams would
be any less loud or visible than those of the Landmark Tower
demolition, a building about 8,000 times less massive than a WTC
tower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ


Cutting charges have a characteristic sharp "crack", called brisance.
That's the sound of the shock wave that makes a cutting charge work.

Each and every beam was examined by at least one civil engineer before
it was shipped to China.[4] A couple thousands were kept for analysis.
1,300 are in storage here [3]. None show the characteristics of being
cut with cutting charges or thermite except where the were cut up to
fit on a truck. [5]


[1] http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisance

[3] http://www.amny.com/entertainment/ne...allery?index=1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...63656282270164


[4] Dr. W. Gene Corley and the rest of the FEMA/ASCE investigation
team gained full access to the World Trade Center site, on
September 29, 2001. The team also had access to the Fresh Kills
Landfill on Staten Island, where they examined structural
debris. The team also examined steel and debris at two recycling
yards in New Jersey. They obtained samples of the structural
steel, which were subjected to laboratory analysis. Numerous other
professional engineers (members of SEAoNY) continued this work
through Spring 2002, visiting recycling yards and landfills
regularly to examine debris and obtain more samples. Additional
samples were obtained and sent to NIST, for further study and
analysis. While others have expressed some concern that the work
of the team was hampered because debris was removed from the site
and was subsequently processed for recycling, that was not the
case. The team had full access to scrap yards and to the site, and
was able to obtain numerous samples. There is no indication that
having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center
would make a significant difference to understanding the
performance of the structures.[4]


http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...0/03_grou.html

"Supported by funds from the National Science Foundation to
investigate the collapse of the two 110-story towers, he spent his
days and nights looking at twisted and burnt steel pulled from the
wreckage, searching for clues to the cause and collecting
perishable data.

"In just 10 days looking at the pieces that are coming out, I have
learned so much important data about the collapse - it's amazing,"
he said. "We will be able to learn many valuable lessons from this
tragedy to improve our structural design and construction and (to
understand) the effects of fires on steel structures to avoid such
a catastrophic and complete collapse and tragic loss of life."

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...0/03_grou.html

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_dday_ny_sanitation/
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/history...and_photos.htm

http://www.amny.com/entertainment/ne...allery?index=1


[5] Oxy cutting and steelworkers at work
http://www.osha.gov/nyc-disaster/pho...ive/image5.jpg
http://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/...tter-wtc-1.jpg
nhttp://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/images/wtc/flamecutter-wtc-2.jpg
nhttp://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/images/wtc/flamecutter-wtc-3.jpg
http://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/...tter-wtc-4.jpg
http://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/...tter-wtc-5.jpg



--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

In article et,
Jonathan wrote:
wrote:
In misc.survivalism Al Dykes wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
In misc.survivalism Al Dykes wrote:
In 1993, a 1000 pound bomb in the basement of a tower was loud
enough to be heard for blocks around and by everyone inside the
complex and powerful enough to destroy several floors of
reinforced concrete yet it was nowhere close to weakening the
tower's structure. In 2001, any bombs would have to be as bigger
and louder to have any effect.

Naw, you could use many small charges, accurately placed. But that
would require a lot of work, which ISTM would be impossible to do
undetected.



Small charges ? laugh out loud

The 1000 pound bomb in 1993 destroyed several levels of reinforced
concrete yet didn't come close to damaging the structure. It was
hear for blocks around.

That is very different from a controled demolition. My understanding
is that small, strategically placed charges are used. They cut
through structural members in a precise order, to use gravity for
help in the demolition. Indeed, it is my understanding that the
compnies that ddo such work pride themselves on using the least
amount of explosives possible, for reasons of both safety and
economy.



There is nothing on the audio/video record that shows explosives
consistant in loudness, placement and timing with the inages of the
collapse.

Yes.

Why doesn't the "truth movement" pay a demolition expert to design a
plan that he thinks that would be consistant with the audio/video
record of the collapse of one of the towers and the laws of physics.

I have no answer.


There isn't a single demolition expert in the world that says that
WTC1, 2, or 7 were brought down by man-made explosives or
thermate/thermite. All that have commented, and there are many, are
on record as saying that no man-made explosives/therm*te were needed.


Name one and prove me wrong.

You seem to misunderstand me. I have no proof of anythig. I have
said repeatedly that te controlled demolition scenario seems pretty
far-fetched to me.


(I know what Jowenko has said and will cite his statements if you
mention him as someone that says WTC was a CD).

I've never heard of him. If you'd like to cite him, go ahead. Does
he shed light on the CD allegations?

The whole of 911 was "pretty far fetched" before it happened.




So was the sinking of the Titanic and the crash of a space shuttle and
the collapse of the Tacamo-Narrows bridge, until it happened.




--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

In article et,
Jonathan wrote:
Al Dykes wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
In misc.survivalism Al Dykes wrote:
In 1993, a 1000 pound bomb in the basement of a tower was loud
enough to be heard for blocks around and by everyone inside the
complex and powerful enough to destroy several floors of reinforced
concrete yet it was nowhere close to weakening the tower's
structure. In 2001, any bombs would have to be as bigger and
louder to have any effect.

Naw, you could use many small charges, accurately placed. But that
would require a lot of work, which ISTM would be impossible to do
undetected.



Small charges ? laugh out loud

The 1000 pound bomb in 1993 destroyed several levels of reinforced
concrete yet didn't come close to damaging the structure. It was hear
for blocks around.

There is nothing on the audio/video record that shows explosives
consistant in loudness, placement and timing with the inages of the
collapse.

Why doesn't the "truth movement" pay a demolition expert to design a
plan that he thinks that would be consistant with the audio/video
record of the collapse of one of the towers and the laws of physics.

There isn't a single demolition expert in the world that says that
WTC1, 2, or 7 were brought down by man-made explosives or
thermate/thermite. All that have commented, and there are many, are on
record as saying that no man-made explosives/therm*te were needed.


Name one and prove me wrong.

(I know what Jowenko has said and will cite his statements if you
mention him as someone that says WTC was a CD).

You are a buffoon.


Name one and prove me wrong.




--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

On Sep 15, 9:31 am, (Al Dykes) wrote:
In article . com,





wrote:
On Sep 14, 11:42 am, (Al Dykes) wrote:
In article et,

Jonathan wrote:
wrote:
In misc.survivalism wrote:

I also have questions about how the explosives for the controlled
demolition were placed without tens of thousands of office workers
knowing that it was being done, but that can wait for another day.

To believe this crap, you'd have to
believe in the most complex and bizarre conspiracy imaginable.

I can't get past the "controlled demolition" explanation. I've
worked in a bunch of skyscrapers. Workmen are always questioned.
And planting explosives secretly amongst tens of thousands of bored
busybodies seems like a difficult task to me. That work is done by
specialty firms. Lots and lots of manhours would be needed for two
giant buildigs. It seems unlikely to me that the work could have
been carried out in secret.

Gee I saw no strange looking guys hiding anything under their coats. Man
you are one NutJob. There are plenty of ways to place charges anywhere they
wanted. You sure are one simple minded soul aren't you? Do you think people
would carry their tools in broad daylight while all the workers are on the
job? When maintenance workers enter does do they ever do it while everyone
is at work? No they don't fool. Does anyone even see the plumber or
electrician while they are doing their job? No they don't. They do it and
don't bother anyone or even disrupt the work flow. You really should try to
get out more often and get away from the internet once in a while.

Nobody unknown walks into a Manhattan office bulding at any time of
day without being planned for and with people controlling the space
notified and told why. Office buldings are 24x7 operations with
several unrelated layers of security, especially after Feb 26, 1993 at
the WTC.

Just getting access to the elevators to carry tools and material
requires paperwork.

There is no eyewitness or audio/video record of explosions of size,
placement, and timing consistent with the collapse of any of the
towers on 9/11.

In 1993, a 1000 pound bomb in the basement of a tower was loud enough
to be heard for blocks around and by everyone inside the complex and
powerful enough to destroy several floors of reinforced concrete yet
it was nowhere close to weakening the tower's structure. In 2001, any
bomb would have to be as bigger and louder to have any effect.

For 9/11, each and every beam was examined by at least one civil
engineer before it was shipped to China. A couple thousands were kept
for analysis. 1,300 are in storage here. More links to stories about
that process on request.

http://www.amny.com/entertainment/ne...2006,0,6613706....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...63656282270164
--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ESK is right about the fact that you can't compare a 1000lb crude bomb
placed in the parking garage in 93 to the use of shaped charge
explosives that are positioned precisely on the structural support
that you want to cut. And that is pretty much what they do. The

Each WTC tower is about 8,000 times as massive as the building in this
demolition:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ

The core beams in a WTC tower are about boxes 20 inchec x 20 inches,
hollow but the crosssection is about 100 square inches of solid steel
(all from memory) .

What kind of cutting charge do you think you need to cut 100 scuare
inches of steel? That's what the crossection of a WTC core beam is.

Do you think that cutting charges are silent?


No, And I never suggested they were quiet. Though they would make
considerably less noise that a single large 1000lb bomb, which is what
you were comparing against.




Cutting charges need to be in contact with te beam. No sheet rock, no
walls, no nothing. How many bare beams have you seen inside a
high-rise tower (Have you even been in a tower?)

Geez, don't jump on me. Can't you accept any disagreement with any
tiny part of your analysis? Yes, I've been in high rise towers,
including the WTC many, many times. I know it's crazy to suggest
that demolition charges could have been put in place. I'm not the
one suggesting that it was even remotely possible. All I said was
you can't compare the noise and effects from a crude 1000lb bomb in a
truck in a basement garage in 1993, with carefully placed modern
shaped demolition charges. As far as noise, if you look at demo
work, the charges go off in sequence, not simultaneously. So, of
course there is going to be less noise for the same amount of
explosives.





In every documentary of the demolotion of a building, the preperation
of the structure has been shown to be lots of work. A portion of the
beams are pre-cut with oxy torches. That dind't happen on 9/11.

Agreed that it takes lots of work. I don;t believe that portions of
beams always have to be pre-cut though.



There are no eywitnesses or audio/video recording that show man-made
explosives with timing, size, brisance (look it up) and placement
consistant with the video of any collapse.

Please look at this short video before you respond.

Again, if you look at what I posted, I'M NOT SAYING I BELIEVE THAT
EXPLOSIVES WERE USED. I AGREE THERE IS NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE TO
SUGGEST IT. So, is it OK if I skip the video?




http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...95848233&hl=en

On a lighter note, Anyone that hasn't seen Gound Zero and the kooks
that hang out there should look at the first two videos. The others
should be required viewing by anyone that has an opinion about 9/11
and WTC and has never been to NYC. The last video shows the Twoofers
at ground zero on 9/11/2007 as they pester the families of the
victims.

Ground Zero 911 Conspiracy Wars by Ray Rivera http://rayrivera.net
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...15283354424113

The Ground Zeros by Mark Roberts
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...37229146&hl=en

The Naudet Film about 9/11 at WTC
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12957&q=Naudet

Marks's collapse video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...95848233&hl=en

The Truth Movement and the families of the victims, WTC Ground Zero 9/11/2007 Sad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2LeCXXIjo

"The 9 - 11 Conspiracies - Fact or Fiction"
http://www.torrentbox.com/torrent_details?id=125450

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In article et,
Jonathan wrote:
Al Dykes wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
In misc.survivalism Jonathan wrote:

I can't get past the "controlled demolition" explanation. I've
worked in a bunch of skyscrapers. Workmen are always questioned.
And planting explosives secretly amongst tens of thousands of bored
busybodies seems like a difficult task to me. That work is done by
specialty firms. Lots and lots of manhours would be needed for two
giant buildigs. It seems unlikely to me that the work could have
been carried out in secret.

Gee I saw no strange looking guys hiding anything under their
coats. Man you are one NutJob. There are plenty of ways to place
charges anywhere they wanted.

Has anyone come up with a credible scenario? I'd love to see it.



There is no eyewitness or audio/video record of explosions of size,
placement, and timing consistent with the collapse of any of the
towers on 9/11.

No eye witnesses. Man you are ignorant aren't you? There were plenty of
people that said they heard explosions from down below. Now go ahead and
make up a story to show that was not true and they really didn't hear
anything fool.


In 1993, a 1000 pound bomb in the basement of a tower was loud enough
to be heard for blocks around and by everyone inside the complex and
powerful enough to destroy several floors of reinforced concrete yet
it was nowhere close to weakening the tower's structure. In 2001, any
bombs would have to be as bigger and louder to have any effect.

Were aircraft used along with the explosion to mask and confuse the issue?
Make up all the BS you want but this does not show anyone a single thing.




No. The sound of the impact was not like that of a large cutting
charge.

In the hour after the impact fires raged in towers 1 and 2 right up to
the instant of the collaspe. Video shows the building failing at the
location of the fire, nowhere else. No demolition explosions were
heard immediatly preceeding the collapse.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...55553528290546
Short. Shows fire at collapse and inward pull immediatly
prior to failure.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...11652462779534
WTC Collaspe 16 seconds
Red flames at 9 seconds

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...95848233&hl=en
Starting at 5:18 - Lots of flame prior to collapse
Lots of pics of beams bending innward
3:00 600 pounds TNT in truck






On a lighter note, Anyone that hasn't seen Gound Zero and the kooks
that hang out there should look at the first two videos. The others
should be required viewing by anyone that has an opinion about 9/11
and WTC.


Ground Zero 911 Conspiracy Wars by Ray Rivera http://rayrivera.net
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...15283354424113

The Ground Zeros by Mark Roberts
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...37229146&hl=en

The Naudet Film about 9/11 at WTC
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12957&q=Naudet

Marks's collapse video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...95848233&hl=en

"The 9 - 11 Conspiracies - Fact or Fiction"
http://www.torrentbox.com/torrent_details?id=125450

WTC Ground Zero 9/11/2007 Sad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2LeCXXIjo

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

In article om,
wrote:
On Sep 15, 9:31 am, (Al Dykes) wrote:
In article . com,





wrote:
On Sep 14, 11:42 am, (Al Dykes) wrote:
In article et,

Jonathan wrote:
wrote:
In misc.survivalism wrote:

I also have questions about how the explosives for the controlled
demolition were placed without tens of thousands of office workers
knowing that it was being done, but that can wait for another day.

To believe this crap, you'd have to
believe in the most complex and bizarre conspiracy imaginable.

I can't get past the "controlled demolition" explanation. I've
worked in a bunch of skyscrapers. Workmen are always questioned.
And planting explosives secretly amongst tens of thousands of bored
busybodies seems like a difficult task to me. That work is done by
specialty firms. Lots and lots of manhours would be needed for two
giant buildigs. It seems unlikely to me that the work could have
been carried out in secret.

Gee I saw no strange looking guys hiding anything under their coats. Man
you are one NutJob. There are plenty of ways to place charges anywhere they
wanted. You sure are one simple minded soul aren't you? Do you think people
would carry their tools in broad daylight while all the workers are on the
job? When maintenance workers enter does do they ever do it while everyone
is at work? No they don't fool. Does anyone even see the plumber or
electrician while they are doing their job? No they don't. They do it and
don't bother anyone or even disrupt the work flow. You really should try to
get out more often and get away from the internet once in a while.

Nobody unknown walks into a Manhattan office bulding at any time of
day without being planned for and with people controlling the space
notified and told why. Office buldings are 24x7 operations with
several unrelated layers of security, especially after Feb 26, 1993 at
the WTC.

Just getting access to the elevators to carry tools and material
requires paperwork.

There is no eyewitness or audio/video record of explosions of size,
placement, and timing consistent with the collapse of any of the
towers on 9/11.

In 1993, a 1000 pound bomb in the basement of a tower was loud enough
to be heard for blocks around and by everyone inside the complex and
powerful enough to destroy several floors of reinforced concrete yet
it was nowhere close to weakening the tower's structure. In 2001, any
bomb would have to be as bigger and louder to have any effect.

For 9/11, each and every beam was examined by at least one civil
engineer before it was shipped to China. A couple thousands were kept
for analysis. 1,300 are in storage here. More links to stories about
that process on request.

http://www.amny.com/entertainment/ne...2006,0,6613706....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...63656282270164
--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ESK is right about the fact that you can't compare a 1000lb crude bomb
placed in the parking garage in 93 to the use of shaped charge
explosives that are positioned precisely on the structural support
that you want to cut. And that is pretty much what they do. The

Each WTC tower is about 8,000 times as massive as the building in this
demolition:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ

The core beams in a WTC tower are about boxes 20 inchec x 20 inches,
hollow but the crosssection is about 100 square inches of solid steel
(all from memory) .

What kind of cutting charge do you think you need to cut 100 scuare
inches of steel? That's what the crossection of a WTC core beam is.

Do you think that cutting charges are silent?


No, And I never suggested they were quiet. Though they would make
considerably less noise that a single large 1000lb bomb, which is what
you were comparing against.




Cutting charges need to be in contact with te beam. No sheet rock, no
walls, no nothing. How many bare beams have you seen inside a
high-rise tower (Have you even been in a tower?)

Geez, don't jump on me. Can't you accept any disagreement with any
tiny part of your analysis? Yes, I've been in high rise towers,
including the WTC many, many times. I know it's crazy to suggest
that demolition charges could have been put in place. I'm not the
one suggesting that it was even remotely possible. All I said was
you can't compare the noise and effects from a crude 1000lb bomb in a
truck in a basement garage in 1993, with carefully placed modern


Sorry if I'm harsh. There is so much BS out there.


The 1993 bomb *was* a high-briscance bomb. peole heard it for blocks.


The core beams were boxes 36x12, and 2 inches thick. [1] That is 200
squuare inches of solid steel.

Why to Truthers think that the cutting charges for these beams would
be any less loud or visible than those of the Landmark Tower
demolition, a building about 8,000 time less massive than a WTC tower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ


Cutting charges have a characteristic sharp "crack", called brisance.
That is the sound of the shock wave that makes a cutting charge work.


There is no eyewitness or audio/video record of any explosions of
size, placement, timing or brisance [2], that immediatly preceeds any
tower collapse.

Each and every beam was examined by at least one civil engineer before
it was shipped to China.[4] A couple thousands were kept for analysis.
1,300 are in storage [3]. None show the characteristics of being cut
with cutting charges or thermite except where the were cut up to fit
on a truck. [5]


[1] http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisance

[3] http://www.amny.com/entertainment/ne...allery?index=1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...63656282270164


[4] Dr. W. Gene Corley and the rest of the FEMA/ASCE investigation
team gained full access to the World Trade Center site, on
September 29, 2001. The team also had access to the Fresh Kills
Landfill on Staten Island, where they examined structural
debris. The team also examined steel and debris at two recycling
yards in New Jersey. They obtained samples of the structural
steel, which were subjected to laboratory analysis. Numerous other
professional engineers (members of SEAoNY) continued this work
through Spring 2002, visiting recycling yards and landfills
regularly to examine debris and obtain more samples. Additional
samples were obtained and sent to NIST, for further study and
analysis. While others have expressed some concern that the work
of the team was hampered because debris was removed from the site
and was subsequently processed for recycling, that was not the
case. The team had full access to scrap yards and to the site, and
was able to obtain numerous samples. There is no indication that
having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center
would make a significant difference to understanding the
performance of the structures.[4]


http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...0/03_grou.html

"Supported by funds from the National Science Foundation to
investigate the collapse of the two 110-story towers, he spent his
days and nights looking at twisted and burnt steel pulled from the
wreckage, searching for clues to the cause and collecting
perishable data.

"In just 10 days looking at the pieces that are coming out, I have
learned so much important data about the collapse - it's amazing,"
he said. "We will be able to learn many valuable lessons from this
tragedy to improve our structural design and construction and (to
understand) the effects of fires on steel structures to avoid such
a catastrophic and complete collapse and tragic loss of life."

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...0/03_grou.html

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_dday_ny_sanitation/
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/history...and_photos.htm

http://www.amny.com/entertainment/ne...allery?index=1


[5] Oxy cutting and steelworkers at work
http://www.osha.gov/nyc-disaster/pho...ive/image5.jpg
http://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/...tter-wtc-1.jpg
nhttp://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/images/wtc/flamecutter-wtc-2.jpg
nhttp://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/images/wtc/flamecutter-wtc-3.jpg
http://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/...tter-wtc-4.jpg
http://www.iridescent-designs.co.uk/...tter-wtc-5.jpg








--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001