Struggling with RA4

If you want an advice:

1. Use only NEW FRESH paper. I prefer Kodak Ultra Endura because of the
quality, but this is a matter of personal taste. ONLY use the huge well know
makers paper.
2. Do NOT use different kind of hobby chemistry. Use for example Kodak
standard chemistry (developer replenisher, starter and bleach fix). They are
very good and works fine at 35 degrees C or some higher depending of the
version.
3. You do NOT need any stop bath or rinse after the developer if you let the
developer dropp from the print for 5 seconds. The recomended replenisher
rate takes care of normal carry over.
4. You do NOT need any pre rinse in water. This is specific for some drum
processors.
5. NEVE, NEVER try to use a drum processor. Use some kind of slot processor
(Nova is one) or even open try is better then a drum. To use a drum
processor is to beg for truble.
6. NEVER, NEVER try to experiment with different time in the developer. 45
sec at 35 degrees Celius is right for Kodak chemistry. Take it ot and let it
drop for five seconds after 40 seconds. And 45 seconds in the bleachfix.
Never try to change. But don't care if the time in the bleach is a little
longer. You can turn on white light after 10 seconds on the bleach fix.

If you follow these 6 points, I am 100% sure you will have perfectly
developed prints. I have been folowing these points for many years and I'm
making prints of the highest quality in my basement lab.

And, the good thing with a slot processor is that you can keep the developer
in it for months if you replenish it right. You save a lot of money. I use
my drum processor in the garden, it's nice with some flower in.

Victor



"Robert Whitehouse" wrote in message
...
I've been printing Black and White for a couple of years now and am fairly
confident.

I thought that I might have a go at some colour (RA4) just for fun, but
without the expense of buying automatic colour processor because I don't
see
this as a regular/long term thing.

So I bought some RA4 paper on eBay - "Tetenal Work" - the pack looked
fairly
new and unopened.

I bought a "Photchem" RA4 kit, and found a "Cibachrome" colour drum in a
cupboard in the darkroom.

I filled a very large (16x20) tray with water at 30degC, mixed up my
developer and bleach and put everything in the tray to warm up.

Following the instructions in the kit, I started off with the following
process;

Dev - 200secs @ 30degC (constant agitation)
Wash 90secs
Bleach/fix 90secs
Wash 90secs

My first test strip was way too dark, but after a couple more attempts, I
have managed to get to the state where the exposure looks about right but
I
cannot seem to get my whites white !

The base colour of the paper (even unexposed edges) comes out a dirty
grey/green colour every time and overall the colours look very muddy.

I thought that perhaps the bleach/fix was not working, so I have tried
mixing up another batch and I have tried extending the bleach/fix time -
no
better.

Then I thought perhaps that I was over developing - so I have been
progressively reducing development time from 200 secs, now down to 40secs
(@30degC) - still no better and I am now starting to lose shadow density
and
contrast.

Any ideas what is going on ? - Perhaps the paper is all fogged ? - I can
buy
some more paper but I would be grateful if anybody else can provide some
thoughts. I have provided a scan of my latest test strip here ..
http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/albu..._photo=7240876

And, for comparison, here is the same scan of the original (commercial)
print ...
http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/albu..._photo=7240877

Any thoughts/comments most welcome

Bob W

I think this advice is too extreme.

Jobo has been in business for many years with many thousands of people
successfully using drums to process prints. They have made over a
dozen different drum processing units over the years. I started drum
processing in 1983 and didn't start using a Jobo (for better temp
control) until 1994. I have never used anything but a drum from the
EP-2 days until now.

I've tried all of the "hobby chemistry" and they all give good
results. The unit cost (per print) is higher with most of the "room
temperature" kits, but their results are indistinguishable from that
derived from using Kodak chemistry alone.

I am currently (tonight) using 16-month old Fuji Crystal Archive and
getting some great prints. Of course, I store it in my freezer when
not in use. Paper is not like vegetables, but it does need
refridgeration to stay "good".

The paper itself will absorb some developer and some will carry over
to the blix. Usually 2 30-second washes will take care of this but
you can use a 3-5% acetic acid stop bath followed by 30-second rinse
and this will certainly take care of the problem.

RA-4 is quite tolerant of development times. I wouldn't go less than
45 seconds or more than 90 seconds, but I've experimented with as much
as 2 minutes in the developer. All that was accomplished was a slight
increase in density and about a 5-7 cc shift toward the magenta. I
would still pick one temp/time combo (I use 1:00 at 35deg C) and stick
with it, for consistency. If you use a color analyzer (as I do), you
should maintain a consistent "process" throughout to achieve
consistent results and you will waste less paper on "test prints".

You can also replenish RA-4 when using a drum, but because of the
greater "aeration" in the drum you should use at least 3 times the
recommended replacement rate. I replenish (with RA-4 replenisher) at
a rate of 30ml/100ml of developer. I use the same for the blix.

This particular problem sounds exactly like he is not giving the print
sufficient wash after the developer which is causing too much of a
rise in pH of the blix. I"ve "been there, done that" and I'd bet my
favorite cat that this is the problem.

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 03:58:42 +0100, "Victor Falkteg"
wrote:

If you want an advice:

1. Use only NEW FRESH paper. I prefer Kodak Ultra Endura because of the
quality, but this is a matter of personal taste. ONLY use the huge well know
makers paper.
2. Do NOT use different kind of hobby chemistry. Use for example Kodak
standard chemistry (developer replenisher, starter and bleach fix). They are
very good and works fine at 35 degrees C or some higher depending of the
version.
3. You do NOT need any stop bath or rinse after the developer if you let the
developer dropp from the print for 5 seconds. The recomended replenisher
rate takes care of normal carry over.
4. You do NOT need any pre rinse in water. This is specific for some drum
processors.
5. NEVE, NEVER try to use a drum processor. Use some kind of slot processor
(Nova is one) or even open try is better then a drum. To use a drum
processor is to beg for truble.
6. NEVER, NEVER try to experiment with different time in the developer. 45
sec at 35 degrees Celius is right for Kodak chemistry. Take it ot and let it
drop for five seconds after 40 seconds. And 45 seconds in the bleachfix.
Never try to change. But don't care if the time in the bleach is a little
longer. You can turn on white light after 10 seconds on the bleach fix.

If you follow these 6 points, I am 100% sure you will have perfectly
developed prints. I have been folowing these points for many years and I'm
making prints of the highest quality in my basement lab.

And, the good thing with a slot processor is that you can keep the developer
in it for months if you replenish it right. You save a lot of money. I use
my drum processor in the garden, it's nice with some flower in.

Victor



"Robert Whitehouse" wrote in message
...
I've been printing Black and White for a couple of years now and am fairly
confident.

I thought that I might have a go at some colour (RA4) just for fun, but
without the expense of buying automatic colour processor because I don't
see
this as a regular/long term thing.

So I bought some RA4 paper on eBay - "Tetenal Work" - the pack looked
fairly
new and unopened.

I bought a "Photchem" RA4 kit, and found a "Cibachrome" colour drum in a
cupboard in the darkroom.

I filled a very large (16x20) tray with water at 30degC, mixed up my
developer and bleach and put everything in the tray to warm up.

Following the instructions in the kit, I started off with the following
process;

Dev - 200secs @ 30degC (constant agitation)
Wash 90secs
Bleach/fix 90secs
Wash 90secs

My first test strip was way too dark, but after a couple more attempts, I
have managed to get to the state where the exposure looks about right but
I
cannot seem to get my whites white !

The base colour of the paper (even unexposed edges) comes out a dirty
grey/green colour every time and overall the colours look very muddy.

I thought that perhaps the bleach/fix was not working, so I have tried
mixing up another batch and I have tried extending the bleach/fix time -
no
better.

Then I thought perhaps that I was over developing - so I have been
progressively reducing development time from 200 secs, now down to 40secs
(@30degC) - still no better and I am now starting to lose shadow density
and
contrast.

Any ideas what is going on ? - Perhaps the paper is all fogged ? - I can
buy
some more paper but I would be grateful if anybody else can provide some
thoughts. I have provided a scan of my latest test strip here ..
http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/albu..._photo=7240876

And, for comparison, here is the same scan of the original (commercial)
print ...
http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/albu..._photo=7240877

Any thoughts/comments most welcome

Bob W

Francis A. Miniter wrote:


It would appear that you are not giving the paper a pre-wash after
exposure. This is very important in order to remove the cyanic coating
on the paper. Failure to remove this coating results in a case of the
blue/green meanies, as Dr. Chapman has called it, in Photo Techniques
USA. A vigorous 60 second pre-rinse is advisable.


I'm wondering about this. With the current Kodak paper I don't seem to
have any problems but I picked up some older Supra III and I think I'm
getting the meanies. So all it takes is a 60 second water soak?

Thanks
Nick

Me too. Never had a problem drum processing. I currently use 2 Jobo
processors with no problems. I use them for single print runs instead of
setting up my Durst Printo Processor(roller transport) Temp is critical.
Try putting a heavy black trash bag over the exit sign.Also a fishtank
heater will keep the temperature in a pinch.
I think Jobo also has a ambient temp. developer for RA4. Watch your color
corrections too. Poor whites can be a number of problems from temperature,
contamination, or just color corrections at the enlarger.
"Jim Phelps" wrote in message
...

"S.Baggett" wrote in message
...
I think this advice is too extreme.

I also agree!!! Been using drums since the Kodak paper of choice was
Ektacolor 37RC. Unicolor drums until about 6 years ago I upgraded to the
Jobo. However, I've upgraded again.


[snip]

This particular problem sounds exactly like he is not giving the print
sufficient wash after the developer which is causing too much of a
rise in pH of the blix. I"ve "been there, done that" and I'd bet my
favorite cat that this is the problem.


Not sure I agree with this theory, but it could be possible. When I said
above, I upgraded again, I've been using a ThermaPhot ACP 302 for the last
several months. With Tetenal Pro chemistry and this two bath roller
processor, I have never had the "blue - green meanies" nor problems with
my
whites (sounds like a Tide commercial:~). Sure, carry over is at a
minimum
(rollers act as wonderful squeegies), but 25 8X10's and a couple of
11X14's
thru 2.5 liters in one session is quite a bit. I always start a session
with a standard print and end it the same way. So I can see if there's
been
a shift. Could also be that Tetenal's Blix is more tolerant to Dev
contamination? Maybe.

Anyway, drum processors work fine. Jobo is still in business and making
them after all these years...

Jim

Just a wash following the developer is risky. Use a stop-bath formulated
for color processing. This will not be especially acid, pH 5.5-6.5 is
typical, but it will contain Sod. bisulfite to eliminate color couplers that
react with blix to cause stains. Make the darkroom dark. Don't tolerate
any light sources at all, especially an illuminated EXIT sign! I'd go after
that one with wire cutters and electrical tape.

I agree that "developer caused bleaching problems" in RA-4 is an
under- reported national problem. Well, maybe not to the extent we
need a support group or anything. Developer carryover into the blix
will cause ugly whites and even the unexposed edges will have that
"sickly" look. When I quit using a stop bath, I soon had a problem
that sounds exactly like this one. I found it took 4 (four) 30-second
washes of fresh water to eliminate all of the gray-green ickyness from
the white edges. I went back to a 30-second stop bath (just using
acetic acid) followed by one 30-second wash and I was happy again. I
also upped the amount of blix replenisher I was using, just to be
safe.

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:56:36 -0700, "Maxwell Sandford"
wrote:

Just a wash following the developer is risky. Use a stop-bath formulated
for color processing. This will not be especially acid, pH 5.5-6.5 is
typical, but it will contain Sod. bisulfite to eliminate color couplers that
react with blix to cause stains. Make the darkroom dark. Don't tolerate
any light sources at all, especially an illuminated EXIT sign! I'd go after
that one with wire cutters and electrical tape.