fixing fiber paper using hypo

sreenath wrote:
Hello, I have used only RC paper so far and have been using FX-24 for
both film and paper.

I now have fiber paper(Ilford Multigrade warmtone as well as normal
tone) and want to do as much "archival processing" as possible.

I read that Ilford recommends rapid fixer for paper so that the paper
base does not absorb too much hypo.

I can not get Ammonium thiosulfate here in India, so have to use only
Hypo.

Please suggest how I can fix fiber paper using Hypo(if possible with
FX-24 itself) for maximum image permanence.

First of all, many cannot use the Ilford fixing method because their
papers do not fix fast enough. I am a bit surprised you cannot get any
rapid fixer at all in India. Kodak's rapid fix, or Ilfords may well be
available.

If not, you could mix a rapid fixer if you can get ammonium sulfate or
ammonium chloride. Look up Kodak's fixers F7 and F9 for the formulae.
These will not be as fast as an ammonium thiosulphate fixer, but faster
than normal F5 or F6.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 08:40:00 up 2 days, 18:20, 5 users, load average: 4.23, 4.20, 4.18

Could you get fixers (from Agfa, etc) used in color processing?
They are all rapid fixers, but it must be a fixer, not stabilizing
solution (also used by many 1 hour labs).

Jorge

(sreenath) wrote in
om:

Hello,
I have used only RC paper so far and have been using FX-24 for both
film and paper.

I now have fiber paper(Ilford Multigrade warmtone as well as normal
tone) and want to do as much "archival processing" as possible.

I read that Ilford recommends rapid fixer for paper so that the paper
base does not absorb too much hypo.

I can not get Ammonium thiosulfate here in India, so have to use only
Hypo.

Please suggest how I can fix fiber paper using Hypo(if possible with
FX-24 itself) for maximum image permanence.

Thanks for any help,
Sreenath

Could you get fixers (from Agfa, etc) used in color processing?
They are all rapid fixers, but it must be a fixer, not stabilizing
solution (also used by many 1 hour labs).

Jorge

(sreenath) wrote in
om:

Hello,
I have used only RC paper so far and have been using FX-24 for both
film and paper.

I now have fiber paper(Ilford Multigrade warmtone as well as normal
tone) and want to do as much "archival processing" as possible.

I read that Ilford recommends rapid fixer for paper so that the paper
base does not absorb too much hypo.

I can not get Ammonium thiosulfate here in India, so have to use only
Hypo.

Please suggest how I can fix fiber paper using Hypo(if possible with
FX-24 itself) for maximum image permanence.

Thanks for any help,
Sreenath

"sreenath" wrote in message
om...
Hello,
I have used only RC paper so far and have been using FX-24
for both
film and paper.

I now have fiber paper(Ilford Multigrade warmtone as well
as normal
tone) and want to do as much "archival processing" as
possible.

I read that Ilford recommends rapid fixer for paper so
that the paper
base does not absorb too much hypo.

I can not get Ammonium thiosulfate here in India, so have
to use only
Hypo.

Please suggest how I can fix fiber paper using Hypo(if
possible with
FX-24 itself) for maximum image permanence.

Thanks for any help,
Sreenath

The difference is in the time it takes to fix the paper.
The Ilford method works best if fixing time can be keep to
no more than 30 seconds. Most papers take longer than this
even in rapid fixer at film dilution. At some point the
rapid fixing method simply no longer makes sense.
Sodium thiosulfate fixer does a good job. Most fiber
papers will fix out as rapidly as RC paper, that is in about
2 minutes. Use a two bath fixing set-up and fix for half the
time in each. Rinse the paper for a minute and then treat in
a sulfite wash aid like Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent. If you
must mix your own a similar bath is:

Buffered Sulfite wash aid Stock Solution

Water 740.0 ml
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 100.0 grams
Sodium bisulfite
or sodium metabisulfite 25.0 grams
Citric Acid 5.0 grams
EDTA Tetra-Sodium salt 5.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

For use dilute 1 part stock to 4 parts water.

If the bath is to be used only once the Citric acid and EDTA
can be left out.

Treat double weight prints in this for about 3 minutes and
wash for about 20 minutes.

I wonder if FX-24 is a variation of Kodak F-24, a
non-hardening, low odor, sodium thiosulfate fixer.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

I use a formula very much similar to yours non hardening, and a water
stop bath (I place papers in about 2L of water for some 30s with
agitation).

This way, acetic acid or the like is not necessary.

Jorge

(sreenath) wrote in
om:

I can get Ammonium chloride easily. I see from newsgroup postings that
the formula for F-7 fixer is :

Water, about 1250F (500C) 600 ml
Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate 360 g
Ammonium chloride 50 g
Sodium sulfite, desiccated 15 g
Acetic acid, 28% 48 ml
Boric acid, crystals 7.5 g
Potassium alum 15 g
Cold water to make 1.0 liter

If I don't want the hardner, will the following formula do?

(Non hardening version of Kodak Rapid Fixing Bath F-7)

Water, about 1250F (500C) 600 ml
Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate 360 g
Ammonium chloride 50 g
Sodium sulfite, desiccated 15 g
Cold water to make 1.0 liter

Is acetic acid necessary? Could sodium bisulfite be used as an
alternative to Acetic acid?

Is the temperature of water right? I have always used water without
heating, but the formula above specifies 125 degree Farenheit.

Thanks for the help,
Sreenath

I use a formula very much similar to yours non hardening, and a water
stop bath (I place papers in about 2L of water for some 30s with
agitation).

This way, acetic acid or the like is not necessary.

Jorge

(sreenath) wrote in
om:

I can get Ammonium chloride easily. I see from newsgroup postings that
the formula for F-7 fixer is :

Water, about 1250F (500C) 600 ml
Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate 360 g
Ammonium chloride 50 g
Sodium sulfite, desiccated 15 g
Acetic acid, 28% 48 ml
Boric acid, crystals 7.5 g
Potassium alum 15 g
Cold water to make 1.0 liter

If I don't want the hardner, will the following formula do?

(Non hardening version of Kodak Rapid Fixing Bath F-7)

Water, about 1250F (500C) 600 ml
Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate 360 g
Ammonium chloride 50 g
Sodium sulfite, desiccated 15 g
Cold water to make 1.0 liter

Is acetic acid necessary? Could sodium bisulfite be used as an
alternative to Acetic acid?

Is the temperature of water right? I have always used water without
heating, but the formula above specifies 125 degree Farenheit.

Thanks for the help,
Sreenath

"sreenath" wrote in message
om...
I can get Ammonium chloride easily. I see from newsgroup
postings that
the formula for F-7 fixer is :

Water, about 1250F (500C) 600 ml
Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate 360 g
Ammonium chloride 50 g
Sodium sulfite, desiccated 15 g
Acetic acid, 28% 48 ml
Boric acid, crystals 7.5 g
Potassium alum 15 g
Cold water to make 1.0 liter

If I don't want the hardner, will the following formula
do?

(Non hardening version of Kodak Rapid Fixing Bath F-7)

Water, about 1250F (500C) 600 ml
Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate 360 g
Ammonium chloride 50 g
Sodium sulfite, desiccated 15 g
Cold water to make 1.0 liter

Is acetic acid necessary? Could sodium bisulfite be used
as an
alternative to Acetic acid?

Is the temperature of water right? I have always used
water without
heating, but the formula above specifies 125 degree
Farenheit.

Thanks for the help,
Sreenath


The above should be work fine.
Previous stuff snipped... Any hadening fixer can be made
non-hardening by leaving out the hardener. Since the acid is
there mainly for the hardener it can also be left out. Both
Ammonium and Sodium Thiosulfate work regardless of pH.
Fixer with Ammonium chloride and Sodium thiosulfate is
faster than Sodium thiosulfate but not quite as fast as when
made with Ammonium thiosulfate.
Note that when neutral or alkaline Ammonium thiosulfate
fixers no longer bleach the image. This is not usually a
problem when fixing times are not extended but can affect
warm tone paper especially if the paper is left in the fixer
longer than necessary for fixing.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"sreenath" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the information.
I have been using sodium bisulfite stop bath for both film
and paper.
If I can get away without a stop bath, at least for paper,
one less
thing to deal with!

-Sreenath

Jorge Omar wrote in message
. 4...
I use a formula very much similar to yours non
hardening, and a water
stop bath (I place papers in about 2L of water for some
30s with
agitation).

This way, acetic acid or the like is not necessary.

Jorge

Be careful of water baths in place of stop baths. Since
there is no acid in the fixer development can continue in it
if any developer is carried over in the film or paper. The
water stop should be a fairly through rinse.
The amount of sulfite in your formula is enough to stop
any staining from carried over developer but its still best
to wash it out as much as possible.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Richard

Since papers should be fully developed, I fail to see the risks of
continuing development in the fixer, and if the fixer is not acidic, any
alkali carryover shall not do any harm also.

Could you pls comment?

Jorge

"Richard Knoppow" wrote in news:2m6lrtFjo67mU2
@uni-berlin.de:


Be careful of water baths in place of stop baths. Since
there is no acid in the fixer development can continue in it
if any developer is carried over in the film or paper. The
water stop should be a fairly through rinse.
The amount of sulfite in your formula is enough to stop
any staining from carried over developer but its still best
to wash it out as much as possible.

Why in the heck would you need two baths when using it one-shot? Two bath hypo
systems are used as protection against used up hypo. The only way one-shot hypo
is going to get used up is if you made it too dilute. There is either enough
hypo in it, or there is not. Your statement seems silly on the face of it.

--

Dan Quinn wrote:

(sreenath) wrote

If I don't want the hardner...



Then all you need is sodium thiosulfate. In your shoes I'd add
a small portion of sulfite or bisulfite for better keeping.
I use S. or A. Thio. one-shot, very dilute; always fresh. Two
baths for archival results. Dan



"Richard Knoppow" wrote

Sodium thiosulfate fixer does a good job.