Cold Sepia

I've always stuck with selenium, but have decided to experiment with
sepia. I have read were predevelopment, after bleach can result in
colder tones. Any other tricks to making the browns colder. I'm
thinking a burnt umber color, instead of the warmer sienna tones.

I'll be trying cold tone papers, and even Kalogen Derivative
Developer, then come back into selenium/ sepia splits. I'm not
contradicting the materials too much, I hope. I just want a dark
chocolate color instead of that old timey look. Sounds fun, eh?

Also theres a bleach for selenium toning made of potassium dichromate.
Any users? I do have Tim Rudman's book as my source, and what an
exceptional piece of work it is. But I thought it might be interesting
to hear some other hands on ideas. The site has been pretty slow
lately anyway.

Ken Smith ( oh, and sorry about the other night, I'm an ass )

"Ken Smith" wrote in message
om...
I've always stuck with selenium, but have decided to experiment with
sepia. I have read were predevelopment, after bleach can result in
colder tones. Any other tricks to making the browns colder. I'm
thinking a burnt umber color, instead of the warmer sienna tones.

I also am looking for a specific 'sepia' like effect. Anyone remember the
movie Hombre w/Paul Newman? The fade-out ending showed a pic of him (indian
lad) as a young boy and I've always liked that faded, burnt(?) effect and
wondered how the film guys got it done? Have not been able to duplicate it
very closely in photoshop.

Any clues/recommendations would be appreciated. Realize I am probably asking
the wrong group; however, your color experiences should exceed those of the
relatively young digital manipulators.

Jim

On 5 May 2004 07:16:16 -0700, (Ken Smith) wrote:

I've always stuck with selenium, but have decided to experiment with
sepia. I have read were predevelopment, after bleach can result in
colder tones. Any other tricks to making the browns colder. I'm
thinking a burnt umber color, instead of the warmer sienna tones.

I'll be trying cold tone papers, and even Kalogen Derivative
Developer, then come back into selenium/ sepia splits. I'm not
contradicting the materials too much, I hope. I just want a dark
chocolate color instead of that old timey look. Sounds fun, eh?

Also theres a bleach for selenium toning made of potassium dichromate.
Any users? I do have Tim Rudman's book as my source, and what an
exceptional piece of work it is. But I thought it might be interesting
to hear some other hands on ideas. The site has been pretty slow
lately anyway.

Ken Smith ( oh, and sorry about the other night, I'm an ass )

Go to the archives at APUG.org and look for a thread about toning that
Aggie posted describing how she achieved chocolate brown tones.

"JIM" wrote in message ...
"Ken Smith" wrote in message
om...
I've always stuck with selenium, but have decided to experiment with
sepia. I have read were predevelopment, after bleach can result in
colder tones. Any other tricks to making the browns colder. I'm
thinking a burnt umber color, instead of the warmer sienna tones.

I also am looking for a specific 'sepia' like effect. Anyone remember the
movie Hombre w/Paul Newman? The fade-out ending showed a pic of him (indian
lad) as a young boy and I've always liked that faded, burnt(?) effect and
wondered how the film guys got it done? Have not been able to duplicate it
very closely in photoshop.

Any clues/recommendations would be appreciated. Realize I am probably asking
the wrong group; however, your color experiences should exceed those of the
relatively young digital manipulators.

Jim

Faded, burnt... makes me wonder if bleaching, which sometimes reduces the
highlight detail wouldn't do that, but then, there might be more to the look
you are describing. Haven't seen Hombre in awhile. But look, aren't faded
and burnt looks readily available? Seems like there would be alot of ways to
scorch the contrast/ emulsion, then reintroduce the image to a sepia toner.

Motion picture people have certainly gone far beyond your average still
photographer in terms of effects... although progressively towards the
vacuous. Saw KILL BILL last night, all style, zero substance. Typical of
the millions spend on motion pictures. Then there Gibson's idiotic bloodbath.

Traditional sulfide sepia toner on cold tone paper gives a pretty dark
brown. Of course, it is very dependent on the paper and somewhat dependent
on the bleach used. Bromide bleaches are generally cooler than chloride
bleaches, and other subtle differences occur with different bleaching
agents. As for redevelopment after toning, there usually isn't anything to
redevelop. But if you only partially tone the print, redevelopment may have
the intended effect. More usually, you may only partially bleach the print,
so that some of the silver remains, before toning it. The print will be
brown, but the residual silver will cool it a lot. You can exercise a lot
of control by varying the bleaching time. For just a hint of brown, you can
also sulfide a print without bleaching or give it a short dip in a direct
polysulfide toner like Kodak Brown Toner.

"Ken Smith" wrote in message
om...
I've always stuck with selenium, but have decided to experiment with
sepia. I have read were predevelopment, after bleach can result in
colder tones. Any other tricks to making the browns colder. I'm
thinking a burnt umber color, instead of the warmer sienna tones.

I'll be trying cold tone papers, and even Kalogen Derivative
Developer, then come back into selenium/ sepia splits. I'm not
contradicting the materials too much, I hope. I just want a dark
chocolate color instead of that old timey look. Sounds fun, eh?

Also theres a bleach for selenium toning made of potassium dichromate.
Any users? I do have Tim Rudman's book as my source, and what an
exceptional piece of work it is. But I thought it might be interesting
to hear some other hands on ideas. The site has been pretty slow
lately anyway.

Ken Smith ( oh, and sorry about the other night, I'm an ass )

Ii would suggest experimenting with the sepia toning using a bleach (
ferricyanide, bromide and iodide) followed by thiourea(same as
thiocarbamide) toning. The toner can be mixed warmer or cooler depending on
the ration of thiourea and sodium hydroxide. I use Ilford papers (fiber).
With the Multigrade paper the toning can run from a traditional almost
golden yellow sepia to a cool purple/brown. I also use Warmtone paper.
Even in the cooler ranges, the browns are really umber like. The recipe for
the toner and bleach are in Rudman's book. There are a wide range of
possiblities depending on how much bleaching one does (taking the print only
slightly bleached or fully bleached) or any range in between) followed by
the various degrees of warmth or coolness of the toning mixture. All the
chemicals are readily available through Photographers Formulary in Montana
for about $20 or so. Good luck with it.

Sam


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