TSA strikes again

"Paul Rubin" wrote in message
...
"c" writes:
mentions some issues of travelling with CPAP machines, especially if
your friend has to use the machine on the plane.

Actually, I was wrong, it is a BiPAP machine. The difference being CPAP
is
constant pressure and BiPAP changes pressure for inhaling and exhaling.

I expect the travel issues are about the same.

Yeah I'm sure they are, the machines are similar in size.

Chris

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
Well, going through the San Francisco airport today, it seems
like TSA found something terrible in my bag. As I went through
security, they found a problem. The x-ray line was stopped and
my bag was put through again. Uh-OH! They think there is
something terrible in there. They take it all apart, desperately
searching for something "hidden" in the bag. Take things
out. Put them in trays. Put the trays through x-ray. Can't
find it. Search some more. About 20 minutes, it seemed,
and they finally say what they are searching for: "Do you
have allen wrenches?" Gee, I don't think so, only computer
equipment, I said. The search continued. They finally found
the allen wrench, about 2 mm in diameter. It is in a plastic
bag with spare screws for my camera quick release wimberly
plates. I must have put it in the wrong backpack on my photo
trip to New Mexico last week. "I thought those were OK now"
I said. The TSA guy said "We've seen the news reports on TV,
but we have not received guidance, so these are still banned.
Lesson: the terrorists will send advance people armed with
tiny allen wrenches to divert attention from the real stuff.

Roger

Wow! An Allen wrench. This guy must be a terorist. What's next,
bridgework? Sigh.

cjcampbell wrote:
I wonder just how helpless the American public has to be before we are
'safe' for, er, from terrorists?

Maybe it would be better if TSA just issued baseball bats to all
airline passengers.

But, speaking as a pilot, there will never be another hijacking where a
plane is deliberately flown into a building. 9/11 happened in the
context of pilots complying with whatever hijackers asked of them.
Nowadays, a pilot will take whatever measures are necessary to render a
hijacker helpless, no matter who or what the terrorist takes hostage.
Roll the airplane, violent maneuvers, depressurize the cabin, fly into
the ground, call for the Air Force to shoot you down -- no matter what,
the terrorist does not get the airplane.

The most practical method for preventing hijackings has yet to be
implemented: take out the first few rows of seats and paint a yellow
line on the floor. Give an armed uniformed officer a seat by the
pilots' door. If anyone, no matter who, crosses the yellow line while
the plane is in flight, he dies. Hijackers can only come up the center
aisle single file, and then only slowly.

Those measures leave blowing up the airplane as the terrorists' only
alternative. Somehow I don't think confiscating Allen wrenches and
naiil clippers will prevent that. Other measures must be used.

I agree. Before 9/11, a hijacking was a relatively harmless event in
most cases. Now, everyone from the pilot to the last passenger in coach
sees it as a case of life or death. TSA is a case of the usual
government approach. APPEAR do so something, anything, but don't really
make an effort to prevent what won't happen again, and spend a LOT of
money appearing to do something. Oh, and if it can inconvenience the
innocent, all the better.

Paul Rubin wrote:
"cjcampbell" writes:
The most practical method for preventing hijackings has yet to be
implemented: take out the first few rows of seats and paint a yellow
line on the floor. Give an armed uniformed officer a seat by the
pilots' door. If anyone, no matter who, crosses the yellow line while
the plane is in flight, he dies. Hijackers can only come up the center
aisle single file, and then only slowly.

A much more practical scheme is used by airlines like El Al which care
about actual security rather than just inconveniencing passengers for
show or for intimidation. El Al simply has a reinforced door closing
off the cockpit, which is locked on the ground before takeoff and
can't be unlocked except by ground personnel after the plane lands.
No amount of mayhem or hostage taking in the passenger compartment can
possibly get the pilots to unlock the cockpit, because they're not
able to.

The downside is that the cockpit section needs its own washroom and
possibly its own emergency exit, since the pilots can't use the the
regular ones in the passenger cabin. This stuff takes space on the
plane, requiring removing a few seats and decreasing revenue. That
seems to be why US airlines haven't been willing to use that simple
measure.

US airlines HAVE reinforced doors, and the ARE locked on the ground
before takeoff. On at least one airline, when the cockpit doors are
opened in flight so the crew can take a 'nature break', a serving cart
is locked in place across the aisle, and the 'cabin attendents' are
watching for any indication of trouble.
Only first class passengers are in a position to notice this action, so
most people may not be aware of it.

c wrote:
"Paul Rubin" wrote in message
...
"cjcampbell" writes:
The most practical method for preventing hijackings has yet to be
implemented: take out the first few rows of seats and paint a yellow
line on the floor. Give an armed uniformed officer a seat by the
pilots' door. If anyone, no matter who, crosses the yellow line while
the plane is in flight, he dies. Hijackers can only come up the center
aisle single file, and then only slowly.
A much more practical scheme is used by airlines like El Al which care
about actual security rather than just inconveniencing passengers for
show or for intimidation. El Al simply has a reinforced door closing
off the cockpit, which is locked on the ground before takeoff and
can't be unlocked except by ground personnel after the plane lands.
No amount of mayhem or hostage taking in the passenger compartment can
possibly get the pilots to unlock the cockpit, because they're not
able to.

The downside is that the cockpit section needs its own washroom and
possibly its own emergency exit, since the pilots can't use the the
regular ones in the passenger cabin. This stuff takes space on the
plane, requiring removing a few seats and decreasing revenue. That
seems to be why US airlines haven't been willing to use that simple
measure.

Or maybe we're simply not bright enough to implement something that works,
even though it was someone else's idea. I wonder how much revenue is lost
due to the security measures taken at US airports. Think of the cost of the
security equipment, the labor, and the unknown number of people that no
longer fly on shorter trips because of the hassles and the increased time of
getting through the airport.

This thread interests me because I am flying to the Philippines next month
along with a friend of mine. He requires an IPAP? machine, and I wonder how
that will affect us. I am bringing my camera of course, and would like to
bring my laptop as well, but I'm thinking this is going to be a big hassle.
It might just be easier to buy a couple extra memory cards and leave the PC
at home.

Chris


I have been flying for many years, and have found the increased security
adds 10 to 15 minutes to the process, except in rare cases where
everyone seems to be trying to get through security at the last minute.
Go early, and you will have no trouble. And be patient!

Paul Rubin wrote:
"c" writes:
This thread interests me because I am flying to the Philippines next
month along with a friend of mine. He requires an IPAP? machine, and
I wonder how that will affect us. I am bringing my camera of course,
and would like to bring my laptop as well, but I'm thinking this is
going to be a big hassle. It might just be easier to buy a couple
extra memory cards and leave the PC at home.

Flying with a laptop is no big deal. They make you take it out of your
bag and send it through the x-ray on a tray, and then they swab it with
something that's supposed to detect explosives, but it's a routine thing,
no worse hassle than the other hassles they already put you through.

I don't expect the CPAP (I think that's what you meant) to cause any
problem, but just to be sure, your friend should bring his doctor's
prescription for it along, and maybe its operating manual that
explains what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPAP

mentions some issues of travelling with CPAP machines, especially if
your friend has to use the machine on the plane.

I find that going through security in most airports with a laptop is
much less trouble than having to take off my shoes, and put them back
on. Slipping the laptop out of the bag, and then back in after it is
checked for nitrates is easy, and fast.

Ron Hunter wrote:
Paul Rubin wrote:

"c" writes:

This thread interests me because I am flying to the Philippines next
month along with a friend of mine. He requires an IPAP? machine, and
I wonder how that will affect us. I am bringing my camera of course,
and would like to bring my laptop as well, but I'm thinking this is
going to be a big hassle. It might just be easier to buy a couple
extra memory cards and leave the PC at home.


Flying with a laptop is no big deal. They make you take it out of your
bag and send it through the x-ray on a tray, and then they swab it with
something that's supposed to detect explosives, but it's a routine thing,
no worse hassle than the other hassles they already put you through.

I don't expect the CPAP (I think that's what you meant) to cause any
problem, but just to be sure, your friend should bring his doctor's
prescription for it along, and maybe its operating manual that
explains what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPAP
mentions some issues of travelling with CPAP machines, especially if
your friend has to use the machine on the plane.


I find that going through security in most airports with a laptop is
much less trouble than having to take off my shoes, and put them back
on. Slipping the laptop out of the bag, and then back in after it is
checked for nitrates is easy, and fast.

Once or twice I've been asked to turn my laptop on, to prove it's a
working, functioning machine... but as you say, that's generally about
the worst of it.


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"RobG" wrote in message
50...
"This old Bob"


It could be used to put something else together as well as used to
take something apart.

In any event, thanks for the heads up.




Yeah... and I know an ex-SAS chap who can kill you about 100 different
ways, mostly silent, mostly without anything anyone would recognise as a
'weapon'. If you want extreme pain without actually getting too close to
being dead, he's your man for that too.

This whole anti-terror thing s***s me to tears.


No SAS needed. A tightly rolled magazine kills as well as one of these fancy
striking batons. A sharp pencil into the diaphragm incapacitates immediately
and leads to death. Same pencil through an ear. The list goes on.

The stupidity of the TSA regulations is almost beyond belief, but it has
probably helped generate a lot of business for cuticle trimmer manufacturers
and others.

Matt Ion wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Paul Rubin wrote:

"c" writes:

This thread interests me because I am flying to the Philippines next
month along with a friend of mine. He requires an IPAP? machine, and
I wonder how that will affect us. I am bringing my camera of course,
and would like to bring my laptop as well, but I'm thinking this is
going to be a big hassle. It might just be easier to buy a couple
extra memory cards and leave the PC at home.


Flying with a laptop is no big deal. They make you take it out of your
bag and send it through the x-ray on a tray, and then they swab it with
something that's supposed to detect explosives, but it's a routine
thing,
no worse hassle than the other hassles they already put you through.

I don't expect the CPAP (I think that's what you meant) to cause any
problem, but just to be sure, your friend should bring his doctor's
prescription for it along, and maybe its operating manual that
explains what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPAP mentions some issues of
travelling with CPAP machines, especially if
your friend has to use the machine on the plane.


I find that going through security in most airports with a laptop is
much less trouble than having to take off my shoes, and put them back
on. Slipping the laptop out of the bag, and then back in after it is
checked for nitrates is easy, and fast.

Once or twice I've been asked to turn my laptop on, to prove it's a
working, functioning machine... but as you say, that's generally about
the worst of it.


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Virus Database (VPS): 0549-3, 12/07/2005
Tested on: 12/9/2005 2:04:53 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com



I have been asked to boot the laptop (I use hibernate, so this is
trivial), and to turn on my digital camera. Not a bit deal.

I travel all the time and have had not a single unpleasant experience
witih TSA people, even though I am usually taken aside for a check
because I refuse to take my shoes off. This said, there is an air of
lunacy about a lot of this, the confused policies, inconsistent
checking, total vulnerability to missle attack, and, of course, the
larger national panic that has been induced by politicians who want
pork and votes. Anyhow, the next attack will be more than flying planes
into something. Katrina redux.

Oh, I don't know what airline you fly on but more than once in the past
couple of years I have been on flights in which the door to the flight
deck was left open well after the plane left the gate.