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  #11  
Old December 7th 04, 03:58 PM
jjs
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"Largformat" wrote in message
...

No, the secret to this conflict resolution is for the 'select' few to
realize
that this forum is not their personal backyard and to cease the abusive
posts.
To disagree is one thing but it is possible for many people to disagree
w/o
becoming abusive. I have suggested this many times.

Even my post about the other groups is labelled as trolling when in fact
it is
giving people a choice. Let all of us know as much as we can and make our
own
choices.


You are the most intractably disrespectful usenet abuser I've ever met. You
do not belong here.


  #12  
Old December 7th 04, 04:09 PM
Largformat
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You are the most intractably disrespectful usenet abuser I've ever met. You
do not belong here.

It is obvious to anyone that whenever I come on and give people other sources
of info, even those I do not control, write, etc. that you and a few others
object. It is a control issue pure and simple. You are angry that you, and so
are a few others, cannot control (which means limit) the flow of information.

I will continue to post info, whatever info, I think will be helpful to people

steve simmons
  #13  
Old December 7th 04, 05:57 PM
David Nebenzahl
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On 12/7/2004 6:37 AM Gregory Blank spake thus:

In article G2jtd.2633$mn6.48@trnddc07, "Shelley"
wrote:

Am I the only person to notice the only time I see abusive posts is when
you're involved in the thread?


No, anyone who participates here for any length of time notices this. It's
incredibly ironic that he talks about all the abusive posts here when he's
the only person who generates them.


Not completely accurate, anyone taking issue on a continual basis is
equally to blame. I have stated in the past that I am not going to
defend anyone but myself at this point. I also raised the point that
one can kill file the thread any time one wishes, I am going to take that
advice, and kill file both this and the other related threads. FYI I
don't see you greatly contributing to this group in regard to promoting
or discussing LF photo, but for now because your relatively new I am not
going to kill file you like I have done with others posting more than
less baseless complaints.


Ooooooh, we're all scared now!

Sheesh, Blank, you wield that threat of killfiling as if it were a really
dangerous weapon or something. Do you think anyone actually gives a **** who's
in your killfile?

And it's still "you're". Learn the mechanics of writing, like the mechanics of
taking a picture.


--
Don't blame Ralph Nader: blame Gavin Newsom.

  #14  
Old December 7th 04, 07:08 PM
Tom Phillips
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Stacey wrote:

Largformat wrote:

I must say, it takes some cheek to employ Usenet to bash its own
newsgroups and attempt to divert discussion to a forum under Mr.
Simmons's personal control.

Charles Hohenstein

One of the three is on my web site. The other two are completely
independent of View Camera magazine.

None of the three I mentioned has the abusive types of posts that are much
too freuent here.


You troll the group with the "Forum Response Critics" totally off topic
thread, call someone a liar and then have the gall to post this?

Am I the only person to notice the only time I see abusive posts is when
you're involved in the thread?


Clearly, you have blinders on as to just whose posts are abusive...

As long as you stay away, things seem fairly
calm unless there is a crossposted digital thread and then the people being
abusive are from other newsgroups.


Ah, so you do know the foul mouthed ass Nebenzahl
and the ever ignorant jj...

All anyone has EVER asked is for you to
stop pointing people to your magazines website as an answer to their
question yet you seem to be unable to do this.

Your new thing is to disrupt
the group with a troll post and then point people to your web discussion to
get away from this activity?

If you find the nonsense that goes on here to be sport
stay and enjoy it. If not you might want to know about other opportunities
to get info and have a serious discussion about lf.

The fat that people here complain about information being posted related
to lf photo seems totally absurd to me.

On the View Camera site I allow people to post references to other web
sites and I do not complain or delete them. It is simply that I believe in
open communication and allowing people to make their own choices.

steve simmons

steve simmons

steve


--

Stacey

  #15  
Old December 7th 04, 07:22 PM
Tom Phillips
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Gregory Blank wrote:

In article G2jtd.2633$mn6.48@trnddc07, "Shelley"
wrote:

Am I the only person to notice the only time I see abusive posts is when
you're involved in the thread?


No, anyone who participates here for any length of time notices this. It's
incredibly ironic that he talks about all the abusive posts here when he's
the only person who generates them.


Not completely accurate, anyone taking issue on a continual basis is
equally to blame. I have stated in the past that I am not going to
defend anyone but myself at this point. I also raised the point that
one can kill file the thread any time one wishes, I am going to take that
advice, and kill file both this and the other related threads. FYI I
don't see you greatly contributing to this group in regard to promoting
or discussing LF photo, but for now because your relatively new I am not
going to kill file you like I have done with others posting more than
less baseless complaints.


It's interesting how little those who are complaining loudest
(i.e., Nebenzahl et. al.) contribute to ANY rec.photo group,
other than to stir up trouble with nasty postings.


LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

  #16  
Old December 7th 04, 07:29 PM
Tom Phillips
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Largformat wrote:

All anyone has EVER asked is for you to
stop pointing people to your magazines website as an answer to their
question yet you seem to be unable to do this. Your new thing is to disrupt
the group with a troll post and then point people to your web discussion to
get away from this activity?

I partly agree. Tgere are some people who frequent this group who have a
problem whenever I post anything. However, your post is also full of
misinformation.

I told people about three other discussion groups - only one of which I
cointrol.

I frequently post here and in other places info w/o mentioning my web site.

There is info, free info, on the view camera site that is helpful to people. I
get nates of thanks all the time.

No, the secret to this conflict resolution is for the 'select' few to realize
that this forum is not their personal backyard and to cease the abusive posts.
To disagree is one thing but it is possible for many people to disagree w/o
becoming abusive. I have suggested this many times.

Even my post about the other groups is labelled as trolling when in fact it is
giving people a choice. Let all of us know as much as we can and make our own
choices.


Re conflict resolution:

Well, you _should_ post the information in this nsg for
the benefit of those who read the nsg, not just direct
the OP to viewcamera. The other secret to conflict
resolution is to killfile Nebenzahl et al since no
matter what you do or say they will remain abusive as
it's the only thing they actually have to contribute...


steve simmons

  #17  
Old December 7th 04, 07:42 PM
Tom Phillips
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 12/7/2004 6:37 AM Gregory Blank spake thus:

In article G2jtd.2633$mn6.48@trnddc07, "Shelley"
wrote:

Am I the only person to notice the only time I see abusive posts is when
you're involved in the thread?

No, anyone who participates here for any length of time notices this. It's
incredibly ironic that he talks about all the abusive posts here when he's
the only person who generates them.


Not completely accurate, anyone taking issue on a continual basis is
equally to blame. I have stated in the past that I am not going to
defend anyone but myself at this point. I also raised the point that
one can kill file the thread any time one wishes, I am going to take that
advice, and kill file both this and the other related threads. FYI I
don't see you greatly contributing to this group in regard to promoting
or discussing LF photo, but for now because your relatively new I am not
going to kill file you like I have done with others posting more than
less baseless complaints.


Ooooooh, we're all scared now!

Sheesh, Blank, you wield that threat of killfiling as if it were a really
dangerous weapon or something. Do you think anyone actually gives a **** who's
in your killfile?

And it's still "you're". Learn the mechanics of writing, like the mechanics of
taking a picture.


Fair is fair. Let's see the mechanics of _your_
photography/photographs and compare with Gregs.

Being a blow hard on usenet is easy. Let's have a
juried show of rec.photo.darkroom/large-format and
see whose entries pass muster...
  #18  
Old December 7th 04, 08:13 PM
Thor Lancelot Simon
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article G2jtd.2633$mn6.48@trnddc07, Shelley wrote:
Am I the only person to notice the only time I see abusive posts is when
you're involved in the thread?


No, anyone who participates here for any length of time notices this. It's
incredibly ironic that he talks about all the abusive posts here when he's
the only person who generates them.


That's certainly not true; but it is unquestionably the case that Steve's
insistence on treating a Usenet newsgroup that has existed in one form or
another quite literally for _decades_ as an extension and advertising
billboard for his Johnny-come-lately web forum certainly does stir up a
lot of trouble.

I suspect that if Steve could learn to conform to the simple conventions
of discussion on Usenet, which have facilitated communication here for
twenty years, others would tend to take less offense. It is not difficult
to conform to Usenet quoting and citation style; in fact, it is arguably
more difficult to _not_ do so, particularly in the way in which Steve
does not, since no standard news posting software produces the bizarrely
mangled text that Steve consistently posts here. It is not hard to see
why this leads some people to the suspicion that Steve is actually
_deliberately trying_ to disrupt the rec.photo newsgroups in order to
steer business to his for-profit photographic ventures.

I think that that suspicion is wrong; but I do see why it exists.

Steve, you manage to keep two fine-art magazines in print, which is not
an insignificant venture; to run a bunch of web sites, organize meetings,
pay authors, and so forth. Why is it that you can not (or choose not to)
handle the simple task of speaking Usenet when you're speaking on Usenet?
I am sure you are not one of those people who goes to France and loudly
bellows at the people you find there in English, insisting that if you
only talk English at them louder, eventually they will come to their
senses; I am sure that because effective communication and collaboration
is your goal, when you go somewhere where the existing linguistic
conventions are not those you practice at home, you are cooperative and
respectful enough to do your best to converse appropriately, rather than
stubbornly insisting that everyone else adapt to you instead -- which is
usually considered very very rude.

A little effort expended towards appearing to respect the conversational
conventions of Usenet while conversing on Usenet would probably go a long
way towards calming everyone down (yourself included) and defusing this
mindless and counterproductive fight. Whether you think you are right
or wrong, surely it would be better for all involved if at least you did
the best you could to keep things calm, collegial, and friendly.

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt even when you seem to
be completely unwilling to do that; but as I said I don't have to use
much imagination to see why others are not.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon
Am I politic? Am I subtle? Am I a Machiavel?
-William Shakespeare
  #19  
Old December 7th 04, 09:44 PM
Largformat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thor,

Thanks for your note and taking the time to try and resolve the problems.

In all honesty however, I think the problem is that many of my critics simply
do not want alt sources of info posted here. They complain even when I do not
post any quotes and even when I post sources of info that I do not control or
write.

steve simmons
  #20  
Old December 8th 04, 12:13 AM
Shelley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

FYI I
don't see you greatly contributing to this group in regard to promoting
or discussing LF photo, but for now because your relatively new I am not
going to kill file you like I have done with others posting more than
less baseless complaints.


I've been participating and contributing here for about nine years. My user
name and e mail address have changed a couple times in that period for
various reasons. But if you check just September's messages you'll see 7
posts from me on various topics. Assuming September was an average month,
that would work out to something like 900 messages that I've posted here.
None have referred anyone to my commercial web site (I don't have one), all
have at least attempted to provide specific answers or relevant comments to
questions.

Not completely accurate, anyone taking issue on a continual basis is
equally to blame.


I don't see any issue of "blame" except on the part of those who abuse this
group and/or who don't follow normal usenet protocol or common decency by,
among other ways, the use of extreme profanity. In that sense there is
plenty of "blame" to go around.

Gregory Blank" wrote in message
...
In article G2jtd.2633$mn6.48@trnddc07, "Shelley"
wrote:

Am I the only person to notice the only time I see abusive posts is

when
you're involved in the thread?


No, anyone who participates here for any length of time notices this.

It's
incredibly ironic that he talks about all the abusive posts here when

he's
the only person who generates them.


Not completely accurate, anyone taking issue on a continual basis is
equally to blame. I have stated in the past that I am not going to
defend anyone but myself at this point. I also raised the point that
one can kill file the thread any time one wishes, I am going to take that
advice, and kill file both this and the other related threads. FYI I
don't see you greatly contributing to this group in regard to promoting
or discussing LF photo, but for now because your relatively new I am not
going to kill file you like I have done with others posting more than
less baseless complaints.

--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918



 




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