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#1
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Need stabilization advice
When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the tripod only helps a little. My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent) telephoto work? -- Please reply to: | No nation is drunken where wine is cheap. pciszek at panix dot com | --Thomas Jefferson |
#3
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Need stabilization advice
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#4
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Need stabilization advice
On 2012.11.15 16:33 , Eric Stevens wrote:
What I have seen done is the draping of a suitably weighted sand bag over the lens. This effectively becomes mechanically coupled to the lens and makes it that much harder to shake. In particular it slows down the natural frequency of vibration of the camera on the tripod. Heavy does not = less vibration. it does = different vibration. Resonance can be increased by adding a weight to the lens as well. It could change the frequency of the resonance or just its amplitude - but likely both. Without attaching accelerometers to the lens barrel and observing with an oscilloscope there's no telling what you've actually done to the system. -- "There were, unfortunately, no great principles on which parties were divided – politics became a mere struggle for office." -Sir John A. Macdonald |
#5
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Need stabilization advice
On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote:
When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the tripod only helps a little. My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent) telephoto work? Do you use a remote shutter release? |
#6
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Need stabilization advice
rOn Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:15:11 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote: On 2012.11.15 16:33 , Eric Stevens wrote: What I have seen done is the draping of a suitably weighted sand bag over the lens. This effectively becomes mechanically coupled to the lens and makes it that much harder to shake. In particular it slows down the natural frequency of vibration of the camera on the tripod. Heavy does not = less vibration. it does = different vibration. As I said, (in this case) heavier means a lower natural vibration frequency of the camera on the (elastic) tripod.. This places the natural frequency of the shutter an mirror disturbance further awy from the natural frequency of the camera and tripod. Consequently the camera moves less during the exposure period. Resonance can be increased by adding a weight to the lens as well. It could change the frequency of the resonance or just its amplitude - but likely both. Without attaching accelerometers to the lens barrel and observing with an oscilloscope there's no telling what you've actually done to the system. Arithmetic will tell you a fair bit if you know your way around the mathematics. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#7
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Need stabilization advice
"ray" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote: When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the tripod only helps a little. My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent) telephoto work? Do you use a remote shutter release? Do you hang a weight from the tripod head? Many tripods have hooks for that purpose, and rather than haul a weight around I use my camera bag. -- Frank ess |
#8
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Need stabilization advice
On 2012.11.15 17:38 , Eric Stevens wrote:
rOn Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:15:11 -0500, Alan Browne wrote: On 2012.11.15 16:33 , Eric Stevens wrote: What I have seen done is the draping of a suitably weighted sand bag over the lens. This effectively becomes mechanically coupled to the lens and makes it that much harder to shake. In particular it slows down the natural frequency of vibration of the camera on the tripod. Heavy does not = less vibration. it does = different vibration. As I said, (in this case) heavier means a lower natural vibration frequency of the camera on the (elastic) tripod.. This places the natural frequency of the shutter an mirror disturbance further awy from the natural frequency of the camera and tripod. Consequently the camera moves less during the exposure period. Resonance can be increased by adding a weight to the lens as well. It could change the frequency of the resonance or just its amplitude - but likely both. Without attaching accelerometers to the lens barrel and observing with an oscilloscope there's no telling what you've actually done to the system. Arithmetic will tell you a fair bit if you know your way around the mathematics. Case 1. For a freely vibrating system, mass has no effect on frequency at all - the natural frequency is what it is. (Think of a pendulum - it is the length that matters, not the mass on it). So adding mass to the part that is moving won't solve the problem at all. Case 2. If the system is represented by "tension" (tortion) then increasing mass will decrease the frequency - but not ever eliminate it. There is no reasonable case with cameras for increased mass to have a useful effect on a long exposure (astrophotography). You can have high frequency blur or low frequency blur, but you will have blur. The "bag over the camera" (or lens) is probably some mix of the two cases. But that just makes the math sexier, not eliminate (or practically enough) reduce the vibration. Thus, you're better to add mass to the support system underneath to at least make it more stable so that vibration is not _induced_. (This is why some tripods have hooks at the bottom of the center column). And of course use a shutter release and mirror lock up or mirror/shutter delay. -- "There were, unfortunately, no great principles on which parties were divided – politics became a mere struggle for office." -Sir John A. Macdonald |
#9
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Need stabilization advice
Paul Ciszek wrote:
When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. Your use of the phrase "things wiggling around in the display" rather than the entire dispaly wiggling suggests that what you may be seeing is the wirggling of atmospheric thermal turbulense, a bit problem at these focal lengths. There's nothing you can do about that except choose better atmosphetic conditions. If your shutter speed is too slow it will cause blur, if high enough straight edges will be slightly wavy rather than straight. I have to shoot 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. That's in the right region for escaping from shutter-induced vibration. I need some advice for better stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the tripod only helps a little. My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and of course I have no mirror slap. What's anti-shock and how doe it avoid the effects of shutter motion? What else am I missing? Is the standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent) telephoto work? Fasten a laster pointer to your camera and aim it at a distant wall. Tap the lens. See the vibration in the red dot? A solid granite tripod might help a little, but most of the problems you're seeing are partly in the compliance in the camera tripod mount, and partly in the camera itself. For example, if IBIS can move the sensor, then the sensor can move relative to the camera body. But a massless electronic first curtain to the shutter... -- Chris Malcolm |
#10
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Need stabilization advice
On 11/15/2012 7:15 PM, Frank S wrote:
"ray" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote: When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the tripod only helps a little. My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent) telephoto work? Do you use a remote shutter release? Do you hang a weight from the tripod head? Many tripods have hooks for that purpose, and rather than haul a weight around I use my camera bag. That seems to work. Since I don't carry a bag, just a vest , I use a handy rock, suspended with bungee cords. But, that only works when the lens is mounted on the tripod. -- Peter |
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