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FA: Canon EOS 5D



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 6th 07, 12:09 PM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Wolfgang Weisselberg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,285
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

frederick wrote:
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:


If I need flash, I can just as well use a swivel and tilt flash
head with enough power for bouncing.


Lugging an accessory flash around for occasional use for
catch light or fill flash is a PITA.


If a flash unit is too heavy, go use a compact camera with an
inbuild flash --- because an DSLR is even heavier and larger.

Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to
put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's
a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash
in their pro cameras.


Just because some people, who as ministers or judges should darn
well know that murder is wrong, commit the very same never the
less, is no reason for the other people to follow suit.

Or are you claimimg that Hasselblad cannot do wrong?

-Wolfgang
  #12  
Old September 6th 07, 01:46 PM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
frederick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,525
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
frederick wrote:
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:


If I need flash, I can just as well use a swivel and tilt flash
head with enough power for bouncing.


Lugging an accessory flash around for occasional use for
catch light or fill flash is a PITA.


If a flash unit is too heavy, go use a compact camera with an
inbuild flash --- because an DSLR is even heavier and larger.

Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to
put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's
a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash
in their pro cameras.


Just because some people, who as ministers or judges should darn
well know that murder is wrong, commit the very same never the
less, is no reason for the other people to follow suit.

Or are you claimimg that Hasselblad cannot do wrong?

No. I expect that Hasselblad know that even a small pop-up
flash can work reasonably well as a direct fill flash, and
as a catch-light flash, the small diffuser is possibly even
an advantage in some cases over a larger flash unit.
It's not heaviness so much as an extra piece of equipment to
lug around in a bag. I don't like carrying equipment with me
that I'm unlikely to want to use. YMMV - but that doesn't
make your opinion correct.
The only valid reason I've seen posted so far not to have a
built in flash was that it's potentially a bit
fragile/exposed, and can pop up accidentally. Perhaps that
could be solved by designing them so that opening the flash
by touching a button could be disabled in the menu. I'd
never had an slr camera with a built in flash until I got a
dslr. I didn't have high expectations. Perhaps I find the
built in flash on a Nikon dslr useful because it works well
with iTTL, and is easy to set exposure comp. etc, and with D
lenses and 3d colour matrix metering produces very
acceptable results - within the limitations of the direct
and not very powerful unit that it is.
  #13  
Old September 6th 07, 06:25 PM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
james@jamesphotography_nospam.ca
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:16:51 -0400, "Matt Clara"
wrote:

"frederick" wrote in message
news:1189035316.788640@ftpsrv1...
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
just bob kilbyfan@aoldotcom wrote:

A year ago when the double-rebates were on I had a 5D for a while but
sold on ebay it as it was not going to replace my 1D (a used 1D2N did
that, for the same price) and the lack of a pop-up flash didn't make it
a good general use walk-around camera (my old 300D does that OK).

Fancy that! I think I've used the pop-up flash maybe three times,
twice to just see if it worked and once to check for that old
"streaks" bug.

If I need flash, I can just as well use a swivel and tilt flash
head with enough power for bouncing.

Lugging an accessory flash around for occasional use for catch light or
fill flash is a PITA.
Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to put such an
"amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's a cop-out for Canon and
Nikon not to include a pop-up flash in their pro cameras.


No, pop up flash sucks for everything except sucky family shots from sucky
photographers. Period. I have the D200, and wouldn't use the pop up except
for shots I could give two ****s about (even then, I'd just up the ISO). If
you want pop up flash, shoot with point and shoots, otherwise, you're
wasting your time.



I was in a cave (Banff's Cave & Basin tourist spot) with my 30D and
didn't bring my 580, so I used the pop-up flash... to my surprise,
even though the cave was maybe about the size of a house - it
illuminated it quite nicely, even at 100 ISO. Not too shabby.

I've also used it as fill flash for wedding shots. Works great. Like
someone else said, you should learn to use your equipment...


jim


http://www.jamesphotography.ca



  #14  
Old September 6th 07, 11:31 PM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
just bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 308
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D


"acl" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Sep 6, 3:41 am, frederick wrote:
Lugging an accessory flash around for occasional use for
catch light or fill flash is a PITA.
Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to
put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's
a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash
in their pro cameras.


That may be true, but I personally would prefer it if my D200 had no
flash. I've used it only to check that it works (I don't like flash,
and don't know how to use fill-in flash effectively anyway-I don't
want to learn either, I'm afraid). I cycle at least 10-15km every day
with the camera hanging from its strap on my side, and it's happened
that I popped it up by mistake without realising it. It also happened
once while putting it in a bag. If that happens and I manage to break
it, the camera will have to be sent for repairs! So I'd rather it
didn't have it (or at least had some way of locking it down)... I
mean, the camera is an absolute tank, but it can become almost useless
just by shearing off a little plastic popup flash, supported by two
plastic legs... Stupid.

It has crossed my mind to just glue the thing closed...


I've seen a lot of pros do just that to theirs with gaffers tape.


  #15  
Old September 7th 07, 12:35 AM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Wolfgang Weisselberg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,285
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

rederick wrote:
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
frederick wrote:


Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to
put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's
a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash
in their pro cameras.


Just because some people, who as ministers or judges should darn
well know that murder is wrong, commit the very same never the
less, is no reason for the other people to follow suit.


Or are you claimimg that Hasselblad cannot do wrong?


No. I expect that Hasselblad know that even a small pop-up
flash can work reasonably well as a direct fill flash,


If I want "reasonably well", I don't buy Hasselblad.

and as a catch-light flash, the small diffuser is possibly even an
advantage in some cases over a larger flash unit.


Any other straws lying around?

It's not heaviness so much as an extra piece of equipment to
lug around in a bag.


You need a better bag.

I don't like carrying equipment with me that I'm unlikely to want to
use.


I am extremely unlikely to use the pop up flash, and I cannot
even leave it at home nor not buy it in first place. So there.

YMMV - but that doesn't make your opinion correct.


Nor does it make your oppinion correct.

The only valid reason I've seen posted so far not to have a
built in flash was that it's potentially a bit
fragile/exposed, and can pop up accidentally.


Let's add: There are many places where flash is frowned
upon. You can show your camera and say: See? No flash.

Let's add: it's yet another "feature" to be controlled,
needing another dedicated button or menu slot.

-Wolfgang
  #16  
Old September 7th 07, 01:01 AM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
DoN. Nichols
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 405
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

According to acl :

[ ... ]

I cycle at least 10-15km every day
with the camera hanging from its strap on my side, and it's happened
that I popped it up by mistake without realising it. It also happened
once while putting it in a bag.


Hmm ... The Nikon D70 at least will not pop up the flash unless
the camera is turned on. The actual latch is controlled by a solenoid,
not directly by the button.

And as long as you stay out of "Auto" mode, it won't pop up on
its own when you try to take a shot. Every once in a while, the knob
rubs on something and when I start to press the shutter release I will
hear it pop up, and will immediately shove it back down, and turn back
to "Program" It will also pop up in some of the "special" modes, which I
never use, but never in Program, Aperture, Shutter, or full Manual. In
any of those modes, you have to reach forward and hit the button on the
left side of the prism housing.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #17  
Old September 7th 07, 01:06 AM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
acl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,389
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

On Sep 7, 4:01 am, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
According to acl :

[ ... ]

I cycle at least 10-15km every day
with the camera hanging from its strap on my side, and it's happened
that I popped it up by mistake without realising it. It also happened
once while putting it in a bag.


Hmm ... The Nikon D70 at least will not pop up the flash unless
the camera is turned on. The actual latch is controlled by a solenoid,
not directly by the button.

And as long as you stay out of "Auto" mode, it won't pop up on
its own when you try to take a shot. Every once in a while, the knob
rubs on something and when I start to press the shutter release I will
hear it pop up, and will immediately shove it back down, and turn back
to "Program" It will also pop up in some of the "special" modes, which I
never use, but never in Program, Aperture, Shutter, or full Manual. In
any of those modes, you have to reach forward and hit the button on the
left side of the prism housing.


Well, in the D200, it's mechanical, so it can pop up even with the
camera off. Anyway, sometimes I leave the switch to on, since the
camera goes to sleep by itself. I don't know if it pops up by itself
in program, but I suspect not (as I said, it's mechanical: you can see
the latch moving if you press the button with the flash up).

  #18  
Old September 7th 07, 01:14 AM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
acl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,389
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

On Sep 6, 5:31 pm, Scott W wrote:

You seem to have a huge disdain for "sucky family shots", it kind of
sounds like you only view photography as worthwhile if it is artistic.
But I got to tell you that in time, say 20 to 30 years, "sucky family
shots" can end up having a lot of value. I had a grandmother who only
would take artistic photos, almost all landscape. She had good gear and
thought of herself as a good photographer, as did a lot of other people
at the time. She has been dead now for almost 30 years, and no one
could give a rats ass about her photos, it is a real shame that in with
all the artistic stuff she took she could not have been bothered to take
a few "sucky family shots", just something to think about.


I got to thinking about this a few days ago. Most of my photos are
just photos of the places I live in and visit, and I don't think my
son (for example) will give a toss about them in 50 years. On the
other hand, I have a couple of otherwise ordinary photos of one of my
grandfathers during some military campaigns in the 1900s and 1910s,
which I greatly value. It certainly made me think.

  #19  
Old September 7th 07, 02:36 AM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
frederick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,525
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
rederick wrote:
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
frederick wrote:


Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to
put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's
a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash
in their pro cameras.


Just because some people, who as ministers or judges should darn
well know that murder is wrong, commit the very same never the
less, is no reason for the other people to follow suit.


Or are you claimimg that Hasselblad cannot do wrong?


No. I expect that Hasselblad know that even a small pop-up
flash can work reasonably well as a direct fill flash,


If I want "reasonably well", I don't buy Hasselblad.

Exactly. That's why they include a pop up flash. You
appear to be able to do "reasonably well" without one.

and as a catch-light flash, the small diffuser is possibly even an
advantage in some cases over a larger flash unit.


Any other straws lying around?

It's not heaviness so much as an extra piece of equipment to
lug around in a bag.


You need a better bag.

On many occasions, I try not to "need" a bag at all. One
camera, two lenses - one in a pocket.

I don't like carrying equipment with me that I'm unlikely to want to
use.


I am extremely unlikely to use the pop up flash, and I cannot
even leave it at home nor not buy it in first place. So there.

You're "extremely unlikely" to use the pop up flash because
your camera hasn't got one.

YMMV - but that doesn't make your opinion correct.


Nor does it make your oppinion correct.

The only valid reason I've seen posted so far not to have a
built in flash was that it's potentially a bit
fragile/exposed, and can pop up accidentally.


Let's add: There are many places where flash is frowned
upon. You can show your camera and say: See? No flash.

I've never struck that.

Let's add: it's yet another "feature" to be controlled,
needing another dedicated button or menu slot.

Get over it. There are many features I never use in the
menu. The button that pops up the flash is the same button
used to control flash settings with.
  #20  
Old September 7th 07, 03:58 PM posted to rec.photo.marketplace.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Wolfgang Weisselberg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,285
Default FA: Canon EOS 5D

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems.]
frederick wrote:
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
rederick wrote:


No. I expect that Hasselblad know that even a small pop-up
flash can work reasonably well as a direct fill flash,


If I want "reasonably well", I don't buy Hasselblad.


Exactly. That's why they include a pop up flash. You
appear to be able to do "reasonably well" without one.


You misread me. If I buy Hasselblad, I want "excellent", not
"reasonably well". "reasonably well" is a higher end compact
camera or a low end DSLR on full auto.

It's not heaviness so much as an extra piece of equipment to
lug around in a bag.


You need a better bag.


On many occasions, I try not to "need" a bag at all. One
camera, two lenses - one in a pocket.


Use a compact camera, then; no need to carry a second lens and
it has an inbuilt flash.

I don't like carrying equipment with me that I'm unlikely to want to
use.


I am extremely unlikely to use the pop up flash, and I cannot
even leave it at home nor not buy it in first place. So there.


You're "extremely unlikely" to use the pop up flash because
your camera hasn't got one.


Wheee! I now have a 20D _without_ a pop up flash.
Oops, belay that, my camera says it _still_ has a pop up flash.
Darn.

You really had me confused there for a moment.

The only valid reason I've seen posted so far not to have a
built in flash was that it's potentially a bit
fragile/exposed, and can pop up accidentally.


Let's add: There are many places where flash is frowned
upon. You can show your camera and say: See? No flash.


I've never struck that.


So? I've never felt a need for a pop-up flash in a DSLR, so
there.

Let's add: it's yet another "feature" to be controlled,
needing another dedicated button or menu slot.


Get over it. There are many features I never use in the
menu. The button that pops up the flash is the same button
used to control flash settings with.


Oh, an overlaid button. Fancy that --- and all that for
something I don't need.

-Wolfgang
 




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