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#31
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What exposure mode do you shoot in.
Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
Since you use an F1, perhaps you have high standards. So when comparing to modern cameras, do it with the pro line. I found my canon D60 and 10D were about as good (at metering) as elans and other consumer film cameras. But now I use a 1D Mark II and the metering is outstanding in comparison to those consumer models. Also, I still use totally manual cameras: 4x5 view cameras. Roger I have played around with some of the early EOS's ie: EOS 1 and EOS 3 and found them to be less of a camera and less reliable and accurate than the late model F 1's they replaced. I think this is why I went back to the F1 and other shooters have grasped the new high end digitals. The F1 is a manual camera and one has to think about it (no modes) and one has to add an expensive drive to action shots. My late F1 is one of the last years they produced and the accuracy of the meter is fantastic, even by todays standards. You could not trade me a half dozen EOS 3's for my F1 AE. I still have so much fun and great success with it, I have never saw a reason to upgrade to digital. I don't mind film and I don't mind waiting for Fuji to send my slides. If I ever upgraded to a digital, I would have to spend thousands for the camera that I feel would replace my F1. I don't have thousands to spend and buying a lesser camera, Even the Canon 20 D is not a replacement in my book for my F1 and I think I would be down grading a big step, hense my steadfast in staying shooting F1's. My old F1 is well brassed. I have found a few NEW in Box F1's on Ebay for around 1100 bucks. This is more than the sold for in the late 80's but I would rather spend the 10000 bucks or more for another F1 new in box than any digital camera produced. And I have such a large collection of quality glass for FD mount cameras, I and just content to stay the course. F1 -- Message posted via PhotoKB.com http://www.photokb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...ature/200512/1 |
#32
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What exposure mode do you shoot in.
"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" wrote in
message ... Norm Dresner wrote: Most of the later Nikon's (N75, N90, F100, D50, D70) have a program-mode which can be varied with the "command dial" to any equivalent exposure just by twirling it. I spend most of the time in P-mode but look at every exposure and modify it as necessary. I find that most of the time I can't stay in either S- or A-modes because the things I'm shooting are so varied. Norm Norm, I do not understand. In aperture or shutter priority modes, one has complete control of the settings: you choose the exact aperture or shutter, and the camera choose the other. You then use the compensation dial to modify the cameras "best exposure." In P mode, the camera chooses the aperture and shutter based on some pre-programmed table. You have compensation control, but only over a very narrow range compared to all apertures and shutter speeds, and the compensation modifies both aperture and shutter according to a formula for which you do not have control. So aperture or shutter priority modes have the most flexibility, unequaled by any other mode, and only surpassed by full manual. At least this is the way it is on canon film and dslrs. Roger Roger -- sorry to be so late in responding but life doesn't always follow the plans we make. Anyway: 1. In P-mode with both film and digital Nikon SLRs and even my EVF camera, I can choose any equivalent exposure (shutter speed/aperture combination) the camera allows which gives me complete control over motion-stopping and depth of field. I also apply exposure compensation (+/-) on top of this to correct for situations in which the light fools the meter. 2. Since most of the time now I'm shooting as a "tourist" with no correlation of subject or lighting from one shot to the next, I can't decide in advance whether A or S would be more appropriate for my "next" shot. 3. If I get into a situation in which there's a high degree of similarity between shooting conditions from one frame to the next, I'll most likely switch to either "A" or "S" as appropriate -- e.g. "S" when shooting from a moving car or playing grandchildren and "A" when walking around a flower garden. 4. With 50+ years of experience, I've learned to be very conscious of the settings the camera chooses for *each* shot (assuming it's not an unexpected grab-shot) and I think I never press the shutter release without looking at both the speed and the aperture first. At least by keeping the camera in P-mode, I'm guaranteed that I'll get something reasonable when I don't have time to do anything else. 5. I'd estimate that only about 1/3 of the pictures I take are actually at the first P-mode setting and that I change the exposure to something equivalent the rest of the time, at least for the first exposure on a digital -- then I look at the LCD and determine if exposure compensation is also required, though sometimes I'll just go that way for the first shot as well based on prior experience and prior results. 6. When I use MF & LF cameras, I always work at the equivalent of M-mode since none of my larger-than-35mm cameras has even an internal meter. Do I recommend that everyone shoot the way I do. Hell, NO! But after decades of shooting in a large variety of situations on three continents, I've found that the older I get the more selective I am about what I shoot and I can take the time to modify each exposure to suit the shot. That said, I feel that P-mode gets me "close" and I feel comfortable using that as a starting point. Norm |
#33
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What exposure mode do you shoot in.
"Norm Dresner" wrote:
1. In P-mode with both film and digital Nikon SLRs and even my EVF camera, I can choose any equivalent exposure (shutter speed/aperture combination) the camera allows which gives me complete control over motion-stopping and depth of field. I also apply exposure compensation (+/-) on top of this to correct for situations in which the light fools the meter. That doesn't make sense. In Program Mode the camera chooses both speed and aperture, and you have *no* control at all. If you apply exposure compensation, the *camera* decides whether to change speed, aperture, or both. You have *no* control over that choice. That is as opposed to either Shutter or Aperture Priority Mode, where you *do* have control, because you can preset one or the other and the camera (either automatically or in response to changes in the exposure compensation settings) changes the other. Or, of course, Manual Mode where you set everything. 2. Since most of the time now I'm shooting as a "tourist" with no correlation of subject or lighting from one shot to the next, I can't decide in advance whether A or S would be more appropriate for my "next" shot. Which is exactly what Program Mode is for, and you let the camera totally decide everything. 3. If I get into a situation in which there's a high degree of similarity between shooting conditions from one frame to the next, I'll most likely switch to either "A" or "S" as appropriate -- e.g. "S" when shooting from a moving car or playing grandchildren and "A" when walking around a flower garden. I don't see the correlation to "a high degree of similarity". What you meant, I think, is that in situations where you want more flexibility because the required exposure does not fit into the "average" situation where the Program Mode will be correct, you switch to one or the other of the more flexible modes. 4. With 50+ years of experience, I've learned to be very conscious of the settings the camera chooses for *each* shot (assuming it's not an unexpected Then why would you ever want to use Program Mode? grab-shot) and I think I never press the shutter release without looking at both the speed and the aperture first. At least by keeping the camera in P-mode, I'm guaranteed that I'll get something reasonable when I don't have time to do anything else. Why bother looking if you aren't inclined to make adjustments and instead are looking for "guaranteed ... reasonable"? 5. I'd estimate that only about 1/3 of the pictures I take are actually at the first P-mode setting and that I change the exposure to something equivalent the rest of the time, at least for the first exposure on a digital -- then I look at the LCD and determine if exposure compensation is also required, though sometimes I'll just go that way for the first shot as well based on prior experience and prior results. That certainly is reasonable. But it doesn't match your description above! In practice *this* (using Program Mode) is exactly what you want to do when there is a series of very similar shots to be made. You don't need flexibility... 6. When I use MF & LF cameras, I always work at the equivalent of M-mode since none of my larger-than-35mm cameras has even an internal meter. Do I recommend that everyone shoot the way I do. Hell, NO! But after decades of shooting in a large variety of situations on three continents, I've found that the older I get the more selective I am about what I shoot and I can take the time to modify each exposure to suit the shot. That said, I feel that P-mode gets me "close" and I feel comfortable using that as a starting point. That sounds very reasonable, and is essentially what I do most of the time too. Program Mode gets me close, and shows me what I'm working with. But more often than not, one look at what it is and I know that I want either Aperture, Shutter, or Manual mode instead of Program Mode. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#34
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What exposure mode do you shoot in.
"Floyd Davidson" wrote in message
... "Norm Dresner" wrote: 1. In P-mode with both film and digital Nikon SLRs and even my EVF camera, I can choose any equivalent exposure (shutter speed/aperture combination) the camera allows which gives me complete control over motion-stopping and depth of field. I also apply exposure compensation (+/-) on top of this to correct for situations in which the light fools the meter. That doesn't make sense. In Program Mode the camera chooses both speed and aperture, and you have *no* control at all. If you apply exposure compensation, the *camera* decides whether to change speed, aperture, or both. You have *no* control over that choice. Floyd. With Nikon N75, N90, F100, and D70 SLR's in P-mode, the so-called "command-dial" is used to cycle through all possible equivalent exposures (shutter-speed/lens aperture combinations). My Nikon 5400 EVF has a similar capability. I have as much control as I choose to exercise. That is as opposed to either Shutter or Aperture Priority Mode, where you *do* have control, because you can preset one or the other and the camera (either automatically or in response to changes in the exposure compensation settings) changes the other. Or, of course, Manual Mode where you set everything. 2. Since most of the time now I'm shooting as a "tourist" with no correlation of subject or lighting from one shot to the next, I can't decide in advance whether A or S would be more appropriate for my "next" shot. Which is exactly what Program Mode is for, and you let the camera totally decide everything. No. See answer to #1. 3. If I get into a situation in which there's a high degree of similarity between shooting conditions from one frame to the next, I'll most likely switch to either "A" or "S" as appropriate -- e.g. "S" when shooting from a moving car or playing grandchildren and "A" when walking around a flower garden. I don't see the correlation to "a high degree of similarity". What you meant, I think, is that in situations where you want more flexibility because the required exposure does not fit into the "average" situation where the Program Mode will be correct, you switch to one or the other of the more flexible modes. When I'm walking around, say Venice or New York and taking pictures of things ranging from buildings to store window displays, there's no way to predict in advance whether I'll want a S- or A-priority for the next exposure in advance. When I'm walking around a botanical garden or an alpine pasture, I pretty well know that each successive shot is very likely going to be the same kind of subject and that I'll need the same basic mode -- and probably want to preset a most-likely aperture as well. Similarly, when I'm traveling by train or car through the Colorado/New Mexico countryside, I know in advance that just about every shot will need a S-priority to brevent blur caused by the motion of the vehicle. 4. With 50+ years of experience, I've learned to be very conscious of the settings the camera chooses for *each* shot (assuming it's not an unexpected Then why would you ever want to use Program Mode? I want to use P-Mode becuase it generally gets me "close" to the speed/aperture combination I want. Not always, but generally close. grab-shot) and I think I never press the shutter release without looking at both the speed and the aperture first. At least by keeping the camera in P-mode, I'm guaranteed that I'll get something reasonable when I don't have time to do anything else. Why bother looking if you aren't inclined to make adjustments and instead are looking for "guaranteed ... reasonable"? Huh? 5. I'd estimate that only about 1/3 of the pictures I take are actually at the first P-mode setting and that I change the exposure to something equivalent the rest of the time, at least for the first exposure on a digital -- then I look at the LCD and determine if exposure compensation is also required, though sometimes I'll just go that way for the first shot as well based on prior experience and prior results. That certainly is reasonable. But it doesn't match your description above! In practice *this* (using Program Mode) is exactly what you want to do when there is a series of very similar shots to be made. You don't need flexibility... 6. When I use MF & LF cameras, I always work at the equivalent of M-mode since none of my larger-than-35mm cameras has even an internal meter. Do I recommend that everyone shoot the way I do. Hell, NO! But after decades of shooting in a large variety of situations on three continents, I've found that the older I get the more selective I am about what I shoot and I can take the time to modify each exposure to suit the shot. That said, I feel that P-mode gets me "close" and I feel comfortable using that as a starting point. That sounds very reasonable, and is essentially what I do most of the time too. Program Mode gets me close, and shows me what I'm working with. But more often than not, one look at what it is and I know that I want either Aperture, Shutter, or Manual mode instead of Program Mode. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#35
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What exposure mode do you shoot in.
"Norm Dresner" wrote:
"Floyd Davidson" wrote: "Norm Dresner" wrote: 1. In P-mode with both film and digital Nikon SLRs and even my EVF camera, I can choose any equivalent exposure (shutter speed/aperture combination) the camera allows which gives me complete control over motion-stopping and depth of field. I also apply exposure compensation (+/-) on top of this to correct for situations in which the light fools the meter. That doesn't make sense. In Program Mode the camera chooses both speed and aperture, and you have *no* control at all. If you apply exposure compensation, the *camera* decides whether to change speed, aperture, or both. You have *no* control over that choice. Floyd. With Nikon N75, N90, F100, and D70 SLR's in P-mode, the so-called "command-dial" is used to cycle through all possible equivalent exposures (shutter-speed/lens aperture combinations). My Nikon 5400 EVF has a similar capability. I have as much control as I choose to exercise. Okay. My bad... that is very different from the Nikons that I'm familiar with. .... 3. If I get into a situation in which there's a high degree of similarity between shooting conditions from one frame to the next, I'll most likely switch to either "A" or "S" as appropriate -- e.g. "S" when shooting from a moving car or playing grandchildren and "A" when walking around a flower garden. I don't see the correlation to "a high degree of similarity". What you meant, I think, is that in situations where you want more flexibility because the required exposure does not fit into the "average" situation where the Program Mode will be correct, you switch to one or the other of the more flexible modes. When I'm walking around, say Venice or New York and taking pictures of things ranging from buildings to store window displays, there's no way to predict in advance whether I'll want a S- or A-priority for the next exposure in advance. When I'm walking around a botanical garden or an alpine pasture, I pretty well know that each successive shot is very likely going to be the same kind of subject and that I'll need the same basic mode -- and probably want to preset a most-likely aperture as well. That's my point exactly. It is not a "high degree of similarity" in the images, or even in the settings, but rather in what kind of additional flexibility you'll need. Do I recommend that everyone shoot the way I do. Hell, NO! But after decades of shooting in a large variety of situations on three continents, I've found that the older I get the more selective I am about what I shoot and I can take the time to modify each exposure to suit the shot. That said, I feel that P-mode gets me "close" and I feel comfortable using that as a starting point. That sounds very reasonable, and is essentially what I do most of the time too. Program Mode gets me close, and shows me what I'm working with. But more often than not, one look at what it is and I know that I want either Aperture, Shutter, or Manual mode instead of Program Mode. Our differences are on how to choose wording that draws an image in the readers mind of what we are doing; and not so much that the image itself is any different, just the words. I certainly do *not* mean to be critical of your photographic methods, nor of your results. I probably should have made that more obvious in the previous article. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#36
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What exposure mode do you shoot in.
In message ,
"Norm Dresner" wrote: I want to use P-Mode becuase it generally gets me "close" to the speed/aperture combination I want. Not always, but generally close. I've recently tried P-Mode again with my newest Canon DSLR after not using it since I first tried out my Sony F707 in early 2002, and I was rather impressed with the choices it made (compared to my expectations). What I've been wishing for, for a while now, are user-programmable modes, where you supply a list of Av, Tv, and ISO combinations for absolute EV levels. If you find yourself making the same decisons in the same situations all the time, the process can be easily automated this way. I find myself, in general, choosing Tv mode when light is low, and Av when light is high, to avoid camera-motion blur, and diffraction, respectively. A user-programmable mode would allow me to have hybrid modes, with transition points of my own choosing. At the low-light, Tv end, I could allow exposure to drop by a stop or two when the highest ISO has been called upon, before opening the lens all the way up, and this could alternatively be based upon the actual lens used, as anything present in EXIF data on a digital is known to the camera. Also, the specifics of the lens could be used to control minimum shutter speed, as well. I don't know if the camera knows about image stabilization in lens-based IS systems, but that would be useful, too, in "non-action" user modes. It might take a while to work out your modes, but with a little work, you could make the camera do pretty much what you would be doing anyway, if you had time to think about it, but there isn't always time. In many wildlife situations, a tenth of a second is an epoch. -- John P Sheehy |
#37
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What exposure mode do you shoot in.
wrote in message
... In message , "Norm Dresner" wrote: I want to use P-Mode becuase it generally gets me "close" to the speed/aperture combination I want. Not always, but generally close. I've recently tried P-Mode again with my newest Canon DSLR after not using it since I first tried out my Sony F707 in early 2002, and I was rather impressed with the choices it made (compared to my expectations). What I've been wishing for, for a while now, are user-programmable modes, where you supply a list of Av, Tv, and ISO combinations for absolute EV levels. [BIG SNIP] Using P-Mode in the newer Nikon cameras, the camera's choice of shutter speed is definitely biased by the focal length of the lens (or zoom setting). That already removes some really pressing need for user customization. Perhaps if the camera's "brain" also used input from the focus subsystem on the motion of the "subject", it might go a long way toward making a really intelligent choice of shutter speed -- but that's too much to ask for in today's market where the cost of things like the CPUs and their associated memory and communications channels are a not insignificant percentage of the total manufacturing cost of a digital camera. I don't think that a really intelligent automated choice of F/stop can be made because it's probably going to be impossible for any reasonable image analysis software that could run in an embedded processor in a camera is able to distinguish between a portrait of a person for which shallow D-o-F is usually desirable from a photograph of a similarly sized mechanical product or large botanical where much larger D-o-F is preferred. These comments are based on my decades of experience in the computer field as both a hardware and software engineer, not just on my preferences as a photographer. Sure, in, say, 20 years we'll probably have 100 GHz embedded CPUs with terabytes of program memory that will analyze everything the camera is pointed at and make a really intelligent selection of exposure parameters. But certainly not in the next 5-10 years. For that, we'll still need the old Mark 1 Grey Matter to make the "right choices" (more properly, to chose the best compromise). Norm |
#38
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What exposure mode do you shoot in.
Canon F1 via PhotoKB.com wrote:
Again, shooting in modes can only lead to problems. It does not allow you to situate the anmals, birds, fish , bugs or whatever, where you want in the frame and meter, focus and shoot without agravation. I can get a meter reading off the elk, moose or whatever and my information is set, I set the camera according to what I want to do and forget about the rest leaving me to pay more attention to exposing film and capturing moments how I see fit and when I see fit. Modes will only screw you up. F1 I don't think anyone is suggesting that you park the camera at f8 for the whole day. When shooting anything other than long exposures, my T-90 (much better than the lowly F1! ) lives on Av and multi-spot settings. Take a spot reading or three, add any exposure compensation, and, after due consideration, select the aperture I want. If the resultant shutter speed is livable, I'm done. How on earth is this going to screw me up? While I can see that someone using a stand-alone light meter might find full manual just as fast, manual makes little sense (IMO) when using flexible AV or TV TTL metering. With older cameras that won't 'transfer' exposure data when changing f-stops or shutter speed, I can see how AV or TV might be more trouble. Perhaps this is what you're chomping at(?) If I had to shoot in manual mode, I'm sure I could get quite good at transcribing the meter's f/shutter recipe to a version I prefer (specific stop or speed). But why bother when the camera can do it all with the twirl of a knob? (It would make a nice mental excersise, but would also be a bit of a distraction.) -Greg |
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