A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » Photo Techniques » Photographing Nature
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Canon 20D Focus options



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old December 9th 04, 01:50 PM
N8urePix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text in
the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in
flight because of the weather, but I have tried focusing on objects like a
tree trunk, than while half depressing the shutter release, move the camera
to another object at a greater or lesser distance and the focus almost
instantly locks onto the latter. That is while using the center focus spot.
I agree with you, this seems to be the most versatile mode.

--
Bob

"Nature Photography by Bob Moul"
http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840
"Bill Hilton" wrote in message
...
Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary
subjects and AI for moving subjects since AI will track something and hold
focus while OS locks to one focus point and stops focussing. Dunno what
AI
Focus does, sorry ...


I found this description of AI Focus on the net ...
"There is the usual One Shot as well as AI Servo tracking with predictive
autofocus. ... In addition there is AI Focus mode which locks focus in
Single
Shot mode but then automatically switches to AI Servo with tracking if the
subject starts moving while the shutter release is partially depressed."

This sounds like a very useful mode to me (all I have is the
technologically
deprived 1D Mark II and the ancient 1Ds so I don't have this mode



  #12  
Old December 9th 04, 02:08 PM
N8urePix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So, I wonder if the 20D is more like the 10D or 1DII in its AI
tracking ability. So to Bob, if you find the birds out of focus
with AI, try single shot. Just remember to lift
your finger completely off the shutter button between shots.
I could frame at almost 3 per second with this method once
I learned it. Also, use only one sensor as with multiple sensors,
the camera can get confused and focus on the wrong thing
from what you want.

So what you are essentially doing Roger, is re-focusing before each frame.
Am I following you there? That may work on the 10D and 20D but I found that
on the DRebel the focus was so slow and each time I lifted my finger off the
shutter release and depressed again the camera would start searching again.
By the time it found the bird(?) valuable time was lost and consequently I
would get very few frames until the moment was lost. Next time out I will
try your method first chance I get. After using the 300D for a year and
15,000 shots later, I am finding the 20D to be a whole new ball game. For
one thing, at 5 fps, you better have a large CF. There is really no
comparison between the two. Some may disagree with me there.

BTW, an excellent photo of the GREG. I will return to your web page later
when I have more time to browse.

--
Bob

"Nature Photography by Bob Moul"
http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840


  #13  
Old December 9th 04, 02:08 PM
N8urePix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So, I wonder if the 20D is more like the 10D or 1DII in its AI
tracking ability. So to Bob, if you find the birds out of focus
with AI, try single shot. Just remember to lift
your finger completely off the shutter button between shots.
I could frame at almost 3 per second with this method once
I learned it. Also, use only one sensor as with multiple sensors,
the camera can get confused and focus on the wrong thing
from what you want.

So what you are essentially doing Roger, is re-focusing before each frame.
Am I following you there? That may work on the 10D and 20D but I found that
on the DRebel the focus was so slow and each time I lifted my finger off the
shutter release and depressed again the camera would start searching again.
By the time it found the bird(?) valuable time was lost and consequently I
would get very few frames until the moment was lost. Next time out I will
try your method first chance I get. After using the 300D for a year and
15,000 shots later, I am finding the 20D to be a whole new ball game. For
one thing, at 5 fps, you better have a large CF. There is really no
comparison between the two. Some may disagree with me there.

BTW, an excellent photo of the GREG. I will return to your web page later
when I have more time to browse.

--
Bob

"Nature Photography by Bob Moul"
http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840


  #14  
Old December 9th 04, 02:08 PM
N8urePix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So, I wonder if the 20D is more like the 10D or 1DII in its AI
tracking ability. So to Bob, if you find the birds out of focus
with AI, try single shot. Just remember to lift
your finger completely off the shutter button between shots.
I could frame at almost 3 per second with this method once
I learned it. Also, use only one sensor as with multiple sensors,
the camera can get confused and focus on the wrong thing
from what you want.

So what you are essentially doing Roger, is re-focusing before each frame.
Am I following you there? That may work on the 10D and 20D but I found that
on the DRebel the focus was so slow and each time I lifted my finger off the
shutter release and depressed again the camera would start searching again.
By the time it found the bird(?) valuable time was lost and consequently I
would get very few frames until the moment was lost. Next time out I will
try your method first chance I get. After using the 300D for a year and
15,000 shots later, I am finding the 20D to be a whole new ball game. For
one thing, at 5 fps, you better have a large CF. There is really no
comparison between the two. Some may disagree with me there.

BTW, an excellent photo of the GREG. I will return to your web page later
when I have more time to browse.

--
Bob

"Nature Photography by Bob Moul"
http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840


  #15  
Old December 9th 04, 02:08 PM
N8urePix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So, I wonder if the 20D is more like the 10D or 1DII in its AI
tracking ability. So to Bob, if you find the birds out of focus
with AI, try single shot. Just remember to lift
your finger completely off the shutter button between shots.
I could frame at almost 3 per second with this method once
I learned it. Also, use only one sensor as with multiple sensors,
the camera can get confused and focus on the wrong thing
from what you want.

So what you are essentially doing Roger, is re-focusing before each frame.
Am I following you there? That may work on the 10D and 20D but I found that
on the DRebel the focus was so slow and each time I lifted my finger off the
shutter release and depressed again the camera would start searching again.
By the time it found the bird(?) valuable time was lost and consequently I
would get very few frames until the moment was lost. Next time out I will
try your method first chance I get. After using the 300D for a year and
15,000 shots later, I am finding the 20D to be a whole new ball game. For
one thing, at 5 fps, you better have a large CF. There is really no
comparison between the two. Some may disagree with me there.

BTW, an excellent photo of the GREG. I will return to your web page later
when I have more time to browse.

--
Bob

"Nature Photography by Bob Moul"
http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840


  #16  
Old December 9th 04, 05:20 PM
Bill Hilton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary
subjects and AI for moving subjects


From: "N8urePix"

Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text in
the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in
flight because of the weather


Bob, here's a link to a Canon publication by senior tech guru Chuck Westfall
describing the AF modes in detail ... it's written primarily for the 1D class
cameras so the custom function and 45 AF point info isn't applicable to the 20D
but most of it is useful for 20D owners too. For example I learned you're
supposed to run USM at 300/.3/0 to clean up after the anti-aliasing filter and
that the focus lock and recompose trick isn't recommended inside of 15 ft or
for portraits ... good reading.

http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf (a 35 pg 1 MB pdf so takes
a while to download ... I recommend saving it and reading it at your leisure)

There is something specifically for the 20D on this page ...
http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/

Back to the AF modes and flight shots ... here are some sample images taken
with various AF modes which illustrate the problems ...

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5220.jpg ... hand held with a 400 mm, the AF
mode isn't important here since there was a narrow orange patch of clouds in
the sky and I just wanted to freeze the birds while they were flying in it.
Hard part was getting a group of birds that weren't "touching" each other, and
getting a fast enough shutter speed, I think I went to iso 800 and then ran
Neat Image to clean up the noise artifacts. Either AI or OS would work here.

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5314.jpg ... bird is just taxiing for
take-off, I'm in AI mode with the sensor on the neck ... so long as I keep the
sensor on the neck the head is in focus but if the wing gets in the way it will
shift focus to the wing, which is a problem. 500 mm f/4 on a Wimberly pivot
head ... I got about 8 frames of this guy.

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4956.jpg ... different bird, same mode, same
problems ...

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4897.jpg ... AI mode, in this one the wing
got in the way so the head/eye isn't sharp but the wing is ... this is the kind
of problem Roger avoids by using One Shot instead of AI ... so there are
advantages and disadvantages to each mode.

http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ff_feather.htm ... tough
problem here, the people beside me with 10D's (two) and a Nikon 1Dx couldn't
focus on these puffins but with the 1D Mark II I was able to catch them about
1/3 the time ... AI mode, 400 f/5.6 hand-held, 45 AF points ... small dark
target flying fast in bad weather ... tough conditions for flight photography.

http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...tti_flight.htm ... same
trip but an easy bird to photograph in flight since it's white, flys slow and
is 4x bigger than a puffin ... piece of cake, even the 10D gets this one almost
every shot.

One more, this one sitting ...
http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ve_blossom.jpg ... if you use the
center focus point for a shot like this you'll get the breast sharp but the eye
isn't sharply focussed so I used one of the off-center focus points in One Shot
mode to lock on the neck, which is about on the same plane as the eye. This is
with the 500 f/4 and a 1.4x t/c on a Mark II and prints beautifully at 16x24"
.... using the center point and recomposing would probably not work as well (see
the Westfall publication above) at this close range ... the problem with using
an off-center focus point is if the bird moves his head to the other side (for
example) and you no longer have a good composition ... I tried this several
times on a bear in Denali and when it worked it was perfect but the bear kept
swinging his head side to side sniffing the air so sometimes my focus point was
on the wrong side of the frame ...

My advice is to learn all the modes, practice with them and hope that you're in
the right one when something good happens

Bill


  #17  
Old December 9th 04, 05:20 PM
Bill Hilton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary
subjects and AI for moving subjects


From: "N8urePix"

Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text in
the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in
flight because of the weather


Bob, here's a link to a Canon publication by senior tech guru Chuck Westfall
describing the AF modes in detail ... it's written primarily for the 1D class
cameras so the custom function and 45 AF point info isn't applicable to the 20D
but most of it is useful for 20D owners too. For example I learned you're
supposed to run USM at 300/.3/0 to clean up after the anti-aliasing filter and
that the focus lock and recompose trick isn't recommended inside of 15 ft or
for portraits ... good reading.

http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf (a 35 pg 1 MB pdf so takes
a while to download ... I recommend saving it and reading it at your leisure)

There is something specifically for the 20D on this page ...
http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/

Back to the AF modes and flight shots ... here are some sample images taken
with various AF modes which illustrate the problems ...

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5220.jpg ... hand held with a 400 mm, the AF
mode isn't important here since there was a narrow orange patch of clouds in
the sky and I just wanted to freeze the birds while they were flying in it.
Hard part was getting a group of birds that weren't "touching" each other, and
getting a fast enough shutter speed, I think I went to iso 800 and then ran
Neat Image to clean up the noise artifacts. Either AI or OS would work here.

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5314.jpg ... bird is just taxiing for
take-off, I'm in AI mode with the sensor on the neck ... so long as I keep the
sensor on the neck the head is in focus but if the wing gets in the way it will
shift focus to the wing, which is a problem. 500 mm f/4 on a Wimberly pivot
head ... I got about 8 frames of this guy.

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4956.jpg ... different bird, same mode, same
problems ...

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4897.jpg ... AI mode, in this one the wing
got in the way so the head/eye isn't sharp but the wing is ... this is the kind
of problem Roger avoids by using One Shot instead of AI ... so there are
advantages and disadvantages to each mode.

http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ff_feather.htm ... tough
problem here, the people beside me with 10D's (two) and a Nikon 1Dx couldn't
focus on these puffins but with the 1D Mark II I was able to catch them about
1/3 the time ... AI mode, 400 f/5.6 hand-held, 45 AF points ... small dark
target flying fast in bad weather ... tough conditions for flight photography.

http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...tti_flight.htm ... same
trip but an easy bird to photograph in flight since it's white, flys slow and
is 4x bigger than a puffin ... piece of cake, even the 10D gets this one almost
every shot.

One more, this one sitting ...
http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ve_blossom.jpg ... if you use the
center focus point for a shot like this you'll get the breast sharp but the eye
isn't sharply focussed so I used one of the off-center focus points in One Shot
mode to lock on the neck, which is about on the same plane as the eye. This is
with the 500 f/4 and a 1.4x t/c on a Mark II and prints beautifully at 16x24"
.... using the center point and recomposing would probably not work as well (see
the Westfall publication above) at this close range ... the problem with using
an off-center focus point is if the bird moves his head to the other side (for
example) and you no longer have a good composition ... I tried this several
times on a bear in Denali and when it worked it was perfect but the bear kept
swinging his head side to side sniffing the air so sometimes my focus point was
on the wrong side of the frame ...

My advice is to learn all the modes, practice with them and hope that you're in
the right one when something good happens

Bill


  #18  
Old December 9th 04, 09:54 PM
N8urePix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill, Thanks for the urls. I will read them as time permits. Placed them in
my "favorites" folder so I can refer back to them later. Great pix of the
cranes, I guess they are Sandhills, I have only ever seen a few of them in
FL, but will never forget their "call". Really fine shots of the Puffin and
Kittiwake too. I really appreciate your comments as well as Roger's. I am
waiting for the weather to clear so I can head for the lake and put some of
these tips into practice.

--
Bob

"Nature Photography by Bob Moul"
http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840
"Bill Hilton" wrote in message
...
Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary
subjects and AI for moving subjects


From: "N8urePix"

Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text
in
the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in
flight because of the weather


Bob, here's a link to a Canon publication by senior tech guru Chuck
Westfall
describing the AF modes in detail ... it's written primarily for the 1D
class
cameras so the custom function and 45 AF point info isn't applicable to
the 20D
but most of it is useful for 20D owners too. For example I learned you're
supposed to run USM at 300/.3/0 to clean up after the anti-aliasing filter
and
that the focus lock and recompose trick isn't recommended inside of 15 ft
or
for portraits ... good reading.

http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf (a 35 pg 1 MB pdf so
takes
a while to download ... I recommend saving it and reading it at your
leisure)

There is something specifically for the 20D on this page ...
http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/

Back to the AF modes and flight shots ... here are some sample images
taken
with various AF modes which illustrate the problems ...

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5220.jpg ... hand held with a 400 mm,
the AF
mode isn't important here since there was a narrow orange patch of clouds
in
the sky and I just wanted to freeze the birds while they were flying in
it.
Hard part was getting a group of birds that weren't "touching" each other,
and
getting a fast enough shutter speed, I think I went to iso 800 and then
ran
Neat Image to clean up the noise artifacts. Either AI or OS would work
here.

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5314.jpg ... bird is just taxiing for
take-off, I'm in AI mode with the sensor on the neck ... so long as I keep
the
sensor on the neck the head is in focus but if the wing gets in the way it
will
shift focus to the wing, which is a problem. 500 mm f/4 on a Wimberly
pivot
head ... I got about 8 frames of this guy.

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4956.jpg ... different bird, same mode,
same
problems ...

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4897.jpg ... AI mode, in this one the
wing
got in the way so the head/eye isn't sharp but the wing is ... this is the
kind
of problem Roger avoids by using One Shot instead of AI ... so there are
advantages and disadvantages to each mode.

http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ff_feather.htm ...
tough
problem here, the people beside me with 10D's (two) and a Nikon 1Dx
couldn't
focus on these puffins but with the 1D Mark II I was able to catch them
about
1/3 the time ... AI mode, 400 f/5.6 hand-held, 45 AF points ... small dark
target flying fast in bad weather ... tough conditions for flight
photography.

http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...tti_flight.htm ...
same
trip but an easy bird to photograph in flight since it's white, flys slow
and
is 4x bigger than a puffin ... piece of cake, even the 10D gets this one
almost
every shot.

One more, this one sitting ...
http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ve_blossom.jpg ... if you use
the
center focus point for a shot like this you'll get the breast sharp but
the eye
isn't sharply focussed so I used one of the off-center focus points in One
Shot
mode to lock on the neck, which is about on the same plane as the eye.
This is
with the 500 f/4 and a 1.4x t/c on a Mark II and prints beautifully at
16x24"
... using the center point and recomposing would probably not work as well
(see
the Westfall publication above) at this close range ... the problem with
using
an off-center focus point is if the bird moves his head to the other side
(for
example) and you no longer have a good composition ... I tried this
several
times on a bear in Denali and when it worked it was perfect but the bear
kept
swinging his head side to side sniffing the air so sometimes my focus
point was
on the wrong side of the frame ...

My advice is to learn all the modes, practice with them and hope that
you're in
the right one when something good happens

Bill




  #19  
Old December 9th 04, 09:54 PM
N8urePix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill, Thanks for the urls. I will read them as time permits. Placed them in
my "favorites" folder so I can refer back to them later. Great pix of the
cranes, I guess they are Sandhills, I have only ever seen a few of them in
FL, but will never forget their "call". Really fine shots of the Puffin and
Kittiwake too. I really appreciate your comments as well as Roger's. I am
waiting for the weather to clear so I can head for the lake and put some of
these tips into practice.

--
Bob

"Nature Photography by Bob Moul"
http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840
"Bill Hilton" wrote in message
...
Generally they recommend One Shot for stationary
subjects and AI for moving subjects


From: "N8urePix"

Bill, this is the mode I have been practicing with after reading the text
in
the manual. I have not had much of an opportunity to try it on birds in
flight because of the weather


Bob, here's a link to a Canon publication by senior tech guru Chuck
Westfall
describing the AF modes in detail ... it's written primarily for the 1D
class
cameras so the custom function and 45 AF point info isn't applicable to
the 20D
but most of it is useful for 20D owners too. For example I learned you're
supposed to run USM at 300/.3/0 to clean up after the anti-aliasing filter
and
that the focus lock and recompose trick isn't recommended inside of 15 ft
or
for portraits ... good reading.

http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf (a 35 pg 1 MB pdf so
takes
a while to download ... I recommend saving it and reading it at your
leisure)

There is something specifically for the 20D on this page ...
http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/

Back to the AF modes and flight shots ... here are some sample images
taken
with various AF modes which illustrate the problems ...

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5220.jpg ... hand held with a 400 mm,
the AF
mode isn't important here since there was a narrow orange patch of clouds
in
the sky and I just wanted to freeze the birds while they were flying in
it.
Hard part was getting a group of birds that weren't "touching" each other,
and
getting a fast enough shutter speed, I think I went to iso 800 and then
ran
Neat Image to clean up the noise artifacts. Either AI or OS would work
here.

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T5314.jpg ... bird is just taxiing for
take-off, I'm in AI mode with the sensor on the neck ... so long as I keep
the
sensor on the neck the head is in focus but if the wing gets in the way it
will
shift focus to the wing, which is a problem. 500 mm f/4 on a Wimberly
pivot
head ... I got about 8 frames of this guy.

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4956.jpg ... different bird, same mode,
same
problems ...

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/T4897.jpg ... AI mode, in this one the
wing
got in the way so the head/eye isn't sharp but the wing is ... this is the
kind
of problem Roger avoids by using One Shot instead of AI ... so there are
advantages and disadvantages to each mode.

http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ff_feather.htm ...
tough
problem here, the people beside me with 10D's (two) and a Nikon 1Dx
couldn't
focus on these puffins but with the 1D Mark II I was able to catch them
about
1/3 the time ... AI mode, 400 f/5.6 hand-held, 45 AF points ... small dark
target flying fast in bad weather ... tough conditions for flight
photography.

http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...tti_flight.htm ...
same
trip but an easy bird to photograph in flight since it's white, flys slow
and
is 4x bigger than a puffin ... piece of cake, even the 10D gets this one
almost
every shot.

One more, this one sitting ...
http://members.aol.com/hiltonfotogra...ve_blossom.jpg ... if you use
the
center focus point for a shot like this you'll get the breast sharp but
the eye
isn't sharply focussed so I used one of the off-center focus points in One
Shot
mode to lock on the neck, which is about on the same plane as the eye.
This is
with the 500 f/4 and a 1.4x t/c on a Mark II and prints beautifully at
16x24"
... using the center point and recomposing would probably not work as well
(see
the Westfall publication above) at this close range ... the problem with
using
an off-center focus point is if the bird moves his head to the other side
(for
example) and you no longer have a good composition ... I tried this
several
times on a bear in Denali and when it worked it was perfect but the bear
kept
swinging his head side to side sniffing the air so sometimes my focus
point was
on the wrong side of the frame ...

My advice is to learn all the modes, practice with them and hope that
you're in
the right one when something good happens

Bill




  #20  
Old December 10th 04, 07:53 AM
Stefan Jondral
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:27:12 -0700, "Roger N. Clark (change username
to rnclark)" wrote:

Bill,
On the 10D and D60 cameras, I never found the AI, or AI focus
were of much good for fast subjects, especially when unpredictable,
like birds at takeoff or landing. On the IDII, I've set the AI
to maximum rate and then it does real well (but my dogs playing are
still faster). Back to the 10D and D60: for fast action, I
learned to use single shot, and to lift my finger off the shutter
and then press it completely again.


I use AI nearly in 95% and Custrom Function for putting the AF to the
AE-Button on the back reachable easily with my thumb. If I am
following a subject and I think it is perfectly sharp I release the
AE-Button and press the shutter where no focussing is happening
anymore. When I have to recompose the frame a little bit and the AF
sensor normaly would be somewhere on the background and the subject
would have been out of focus this method works perfectly by dividing
AF and shutter!


Gruß
Stefan

--


People:
http://www.stefanjondral.de/
Naturfotos: http://www.jondral-naturfoto.de/
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When will Canon release a new f1.2 80mm ? n Digital Photography 10 December 26th 04 07:58 PM
Rolleiflex Automat weird problem Dmitry Poplavsky Medium Format Photography Equipment 25 December 9th 04 11:01 AM
CANON - The Great Innovator (was: CANON – The Great Pretender) Steven M. Scharf Digital Photography 104 September 3rd 04 01:01 PM
Canon 10d or Nikon D70. Dmanfish Digital Photography 102 August 18th 04 12:26 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.