Metering Question on Macro Flower Shots

"The Bill Mattocks" wrote in message
m...
(MDCORE) wrote in message
...
I would suggest spot metering the white petals of the flower and opening
up a
stop to keep them light with detail. Maybe take a second shot at 1 1\2
stops
open to lighten it a little more.

OK, I think I understand here. Spot metering the petals gives me the
appropriate exposure for an 18% grey card, and the white petals ain't
- so open up a stop. Is that correct?

I wouldn't worry about the green foliage so much, as long as the flower
isn't
blown out. There's nothing worse than blown out highlights- blocked up
shadow
areas are much less objectionable.

Fair enough, I guess since the foliage is not the subject of the
photo?

A third approach would be to diffuse the light on the flower- I some
times use
an umbrella to shade the flower and the background, sometimes a
reflector. This
will cut down on the difference in exposure between the sunlit white
petals and
the foliage. You can also use a second reflector to bounce a controlled
amount
of light back onto the flower- controlled by the distance of the
reflector to
the subject (closer for more light, further back for less).

OK, this would be new to me, but I'm guessing that proper lighting
techniques are something I am going to have to tackle at some point
anyway. I understand your point about reducing the difference between
the petals and the foliage. Excellent explanation, thanks!


Coming late to this thread, these are exactly the three points I would have
made if I hadn't been beaten to it.

Just one thing to add: you can diffuse the light when it is contrasty, and
or use a reflector to bounce light back into the shadows - but the other
option is to use light that isn't contrasty to begin with. Macro flower
shots are often particularly nice on days when the sky is cloudy and the
whole sky then acts as one big diffuser/reflector. Flower pictures taken
during light rain can be very good too.

If you never get overcast weather and soft light while the flowers are out
where you live, try shooting some at dawn just before the sun breaks the
horizon - that can be a lovely light. If the very early morning light makes
the flowers too pink in colour, use a pale blue filter from the 82 series -
an 82A is usually enough.

John Shaw's book called (something like) "Closeups in Nature" gets
recommended a lot, with good reason. It's a very good introduction (more
than you'll need in some areas). You can probably get it from the library.



Peter

The Bill Mattocks wrote:

(MDCORE) wrote in message ...

I would suggest spot metering the white petals of the flower and opening up a
stop to keep them light with detail. Maybe take a second shot at 1 1\2 stops
open to lighten it a little more.


OK, I think I understand here. Spot metering the petals gives me the
appropriate exposure for an 18% grey card, and the white petals ain't
- so open up a stop. Is that correct?

Maybe I'm completely missing the point, but wouldn't it be far simpler
to just take along a grey card?


--
Angela M. Cable
Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester
Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source:
http://www.neocognition.com/

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"Angela M. Cable" wrote in message
news
The Bill Mattocks wrote:

(MDCORE) wrote in message
...

I would suggest spot metering the white petals of the flower and opening
up a
stop to keep them light with detail. Maybe take a second shot at 1 1\2
stops
open to lighten it a little more.


OK, I think I understand here. Spot metering the petals gives me the
appropriate exposure for an 18% grey card, and the white petals ain't
- so open up a stop. Is that correct?

Maybe I'm completely missing the point, but wouldn't it be far simpler
to just take along a grey card?

That's what I said. I don't think you need a spot meter for macro flower
shots but each to his own I guess.

--
Angela M. Cable
Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester
Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source:
http://www.neocognition.com/

PSP Tutorial Links:
http://www.psplinks.com/

5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and mo
http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/

"Angela M. Cable" wrote in message
news
The Bill Mattocks wrote:

(MDCORE) wrote in message
...

I would suggest spot metering the white petals of the flower and opening
up a
stop to keep them light with detail. Maybe take a second shot at 1 1\2
stops
open to lighten it a little more.


OK, I think I understand here. Spot metering the petals gives me the
appropriate exposure for an 18% grey card, and the white petals ain't
- so open up a stop. Is that correct?

Maybe I'm completely missing the point, but wouldn't it be far simpler
to just take along a grey card?

That's what I said. I don't think you need a spot meter for macro flower
shots but each to his own I guess.

--
Angela M. Cable
Paint Shop Pro 9 Private Beta Tester
Neocognition, digital scrapbooking source:
http://www.neocognition.com/

PSP Tutorial Links:
http://www.psplinks.com/

5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and mo
http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/

That's what I said. I don't think you need a spot meter for macro flower
shots but each to his own I guess.

Yes, of course a gray card would work. I do just about all of my metering in
spot mode- I just adjust for the tonality of what is in the spot circle and
shoot. After 19 years of shooting this way, it's just habit- and you get pretty
good at judging tones.

As mentioned in another response- even a gray card reading might have to be
adjusted for a sunlit white subject. By spot metering the flower and then
bringing the reading up to keep the flower white, I don't have to worry about
the difference between the subject and the gray card- having to meter both,
check the EV difference between the two to make sure it is within the film's
latitude, and then adjust if necessary.

As you said- to each his (or her) own.......

Dukephoto

That's what I said. I don't think you need a spot meter for macro flower
shots but each to his own I guess.

Yes, of course a gray card would work. I do just about all of my metering in
spot mode- I just adjust for the tonality of what is in the spot circle and
shoot. After 19 years of shooting this way, it's just habit- and you get pretty
good at judging tones.

As mentioned in another response- even a gray card reading might have to be
adjusted for a sunlit white subject. By spot metering the flower and then
bringing the reading up to keep the flower white, I don't have to worry about
the difference between the subject and the gray card- having to meter both,
check the EV difference between the two to make sure it is within the film's
latitude, and then adjust if necessary.

As you said- to each his (or her) own.......

Dukephoto

but if you don't have one
then use something nearby that is in the same light as the subject and
reflects the same amount of light as middle gray. Examples of this are
green grass, green bushes, even medium gray pavement.

You can always meter the palm of your hand in the same light as your subject
and open up 1 stop.

An instant gray card!

Dukephoto

"MDCORE" wrote in message
...
Yes, of course a gray card would work. I do just about all of my metering
in
spot mode- I just adjust for the tonality of what is in the spot circle
and
shoot.
After 19 years of shooting this way, it's just habit- and you get pretty
good at judging tones.

After 26 years in photography I find that many people have difficulty
judging tones. A gray card is a cheap fix for this problem and an
invaluable teaching aid for a beginner like the OP.

As mentioned in another response- even a gray card reading might have to
be
adjusted for a sunlit white subject. By spot metering the flower and then
bringing the reading up to keep the flower white, I don't have to worry
about
the difference between the subject and the gray card- having to meter
both,
check the EV difference between the two to make sure it is within the
film's
latitude, and then adjust if necessary.

Yes a gray card is not always the perfect solution and it does have it's
limitations but should be acceptable considering the situation, equipment
and experience level of the OP. I'm writing a pamphlet/book on the subject
of light measurement right now. Many of the photography books I have read
get this subject wrong to some extent. I hope to improve this situation.

As you said- to each his (or her) own.......

Dukephoto

"MDCORE" wrote in message
...
Yes, of course a gray card would work. I do just about all of my metering
in
spot mode- I just adjust for the tonality of what is in the spot circle
and
shoot.
After 19 years of shooting this way, it's just habit- and you get pretty
good at judging tones.

After 26 years in photography I find that many people have difficulty
judging tones. A gray card is a cheap fix for this problem and an
invaluable teaching aid for a beginner like the OP.

As mentioned in another response- even a gray card reading might have to
be
adjusted for a sunlit white subject. By spot metering the flower and then
bringing the reading up to keep the flower white, I don't have to worry
about
the difference between the subject and the gray card- having to meter
both,
check the EV difference between the two to make sure it is within the
film's
latitude, and then adjust if necessary.

Yes a gray card is not always the perfect solution and it does have it's
limitations but should be acceptable considering the situation, equipment
and experience level of the OP. I'm writing a pamphlet/book on the subject
of light measurement right now. Many of the photography books I have read
get this subject wrong to some extent. I hope to improve this situation.

As you said- to each his (or her) own.......

Dukephoto

"MDCORE" wrote in message
...
but if you don't have one
then use something nearby that is in the same light as the subject and
reflects the same amount of light as middle gray. Examples of this are
green grass, green bushes, even medium gray pavement.

You can always meter the palm of your hand in the same light as your
subject
and open up 1 stop.

Indeed. Provided the OP doesn't forget to open up 1 stop. The examples of
middle gray I cited above make such a mistake impossible.

An instant gray card!

Pink card?

Dukephoto