Scanning B&W Negs

Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

quote who= Alan Browne /:


In your shot below, it is as if the scanner can't punch through
the darkest areas of the neg without losing detail. (Is the
detail visible in the negative on a light table?). It is of
course the blackest areas of the negative that the scanner does
have the most trouble with.


It's gotta be possible. Ralph Ballerstadt seems to be able to get some
details and highlights:

http://www.ralphballerstadt.net/rowoftrees.html
http://www.ralphballerstadt.net/rv.html
http://www.ralphballerstadt.net/nymph.html

..and other examples on his website. The images are so creamy. I'll have to
ask him how he does it.


I haven't managed a really contrasty B&W scan. About the best is
http://www.aliasimages.com/images/BW_chair0003.jpg which covers


Well hell, that's pretty darn good. I'd love to get something like that.

Allow me to declare a bias. I write software for a living and I spend
massive amounts of time at the laptop but I have this distaste for digital
images. My prints from the Omega always look better no matter what. I only
bought this scanner to give a hint of some of my work but instead, I am
spending gobs of time trying to make the scans look like the prints.

One of the laments of some PJ's I've met is that B&W from a
digital does not come anywhere close to a negative origined
darkroom print. Scanning is just adding a stage to all that.



Ooh, Alan, did you shoot any film of the horse jumping in Blainville this
weekend? If so, can I see some?

About 10 rolls over the past week. The backgrounds were very
poor (busy, cluttered, bright) and the first few rolls I've
gotten back are disappointing (eg: great looking horse/jump/rider
and then wires or buildings in the BG. I could shoot from the
press tower, but shooting down at a horse just looks crappy).
The park gets high ratings from those who watch events there and
from the riders, but for photography it is not great.

I was shooting from inside the rails, but again the BG's were
very poor. I hope yesterdays yield will be better and will get
those off to Laplante later today (and pickup Fridays's rolls).

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

quote who= Alan Browne /:

I was shooting from inside the rails, but again the BG's were
very poor. I hope yesterdays yield will be better and will get
those off to Laplante later today (and pickup Fridays's rolls).

I guess long glass at F2.8 didn't cut out the crappy BG?

Either way, if something comes out that you like, I'd love to see them.

J


--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

quote who= Alan Browne /:


I was shooting from inside the rails, but again the BG's were
very poor. I hope yesterdays yield will be better and will get
those off to Laplante later today (and pickup Fridays's rolls).


I guess long glass at F2.8 didn't cut out the crappy BG?

I avoid shooting at f/2.8 unless forced. I was targetting f/5.6
to f/8, but yesterday shot as wide as f/4.5. (300 mm f/2.8)

shallow DOF has the advantage of smoothing out those BG's, but
the plane of focus at 300 f/2.8 is mighty thin.



Either way, if something comes out that you like, I'd love to see them.

As soon as I get some scanned. Other things in the works right
now... hopefully this week I'll get some scanned.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

"Justin F. Knotzke" wrote:

Hello,

I know this question has been asked a few times and I've googled for a few
days and came up with some answers but I am curious what people do to scan
their B&W Negs.

I cannot seem to get decent blacks. The hilights are totally blown out. I
seem to have a little better luck with scanning as colour and then
desaturating but they never look as good as they should.

With most of my B/W film scans, I scan them as a colour transparency. Since the
preview scan window does not really show a true image, your adjustments should
just try to get an even range from black to white point, though some curves
adjustment might help to boost other grey values. This is also a good point to
adjust focus and exposure values in the scanner.



At first I thought maybe it was the negs themselves but I've printed many
of these images with an enlarger and they came out quite nice. So it's not the
negs.

I have noticed a difference with some B/W films being easier to scan than others.
Also, while I am not that familiar with your particular Minolta scanner, I have
noticed that some scanners have trouble autofocusing onto some B/W negatives.
Manually focusing the scanner, and manually adjusting over or under exposure, can
often give better results.



All suggestions appreciated.

If you scan your B/W as a colour transparency, the first step in your editing
software is to invert the image, so it gives a more normal appearance. Then you
can judge the image better, so the next step is viewing each colour channel (RGB
mode). If you are not sure of the differences in RGB mode, switch the file to
CMYK, and view each of those channels. Then using either mode, try to eliminate
one, or more channels that are not giving a good image quality. Often most film
scanners have a bias to give better results in the Green Channel (Magenta in CMYK
mode). However, some images might be better in the other Channels, or even when
using two channels together. In PhotoShop, the Channels Palette allows you to
view Channels individually, or combined. With a little practice, you should be
able to do this very quickly, and get much nicer scanned B/W results.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com
http://www.agstudiopro.com Coming Soon!

"Justin F. Knotzke" wrote in message
...
quote who= Matt Clara /:

What scanner are you using, and are you using digital ICE? If so,
don't. I
scanned a 6x7 B&W negative yesterday on an LS-8000, and the results are
quite satisfactory (if not somewhat amazing).

The scanner is a Minolta Dimage IV. I am using vuescan. My scanner
doesn't
support ICE.

May I ask if you scanned as B&W or as colour and then desaturated?

Thanks

J


Scanned as B&W to grayscale.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

"Justin F. Knotzke" wrote in message
...
quote who= Matt Clara /:

What scanner are you using, and are you using digital ICE? If so,
don't. I
scanned a 6x7 B&W negative yesterday on an LS-8000, and the results are
quite satisfactory (if not somewhat amazing).

The scanner is a Minolta Dimage IV. I am using vuescan. My scanner
doesn't
support ICE.

May I ask if you scanned as B&W or as colour and then desaturated?


I did have some trouble producing good scans of B&W in VueScan, though, so
switched to Nikon Scan 3.1


--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

quote who= Gordon Moat /:

If you scan your B/W as a colour transparency, the first step in your editing
software is to invert the image, so it gives a more normal appearance. Then you
can judge the image better, so the next step is viewing each colour channel (RGB
mode). If you are not sure of the differences in RGB mode, switch the file to
CMYK, and view each of those channels. Then using either mode, try to eliminate
one, or more channels that are not giving a good image quality. Often most film
scanners have a bias to give better results in the Green Channel (Magenta in CMYK
mode). However, some images might be better in the other Channels, or even when
using two channels together. In PhotoShop, the Channels Palette allows you to
view Channels individually, or combined. With a little practice, you should be
able to do this very quickly, and get much nicer scanned B/W results.

Thanks for the reply Gordon. I did have the best results using this method.

However, for a lark, I just tried Silverfast and OH MY, the results are
very impressive.

J


--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

quote who= Gordon Moat /:


If you scan your B/W as a colour transparency, the first step in your editing
software is to invert the image, so it gives a more normal appearance. Then you
can judge the image better, so the next step is viewing each colour channel (RGB
mode). If you are not sure of the differences in RGB mode, switch the file to
CMYK, and view each of those channels. Then using either mode, try to eliminate
one, or more channels that are not giving a good image quality. Often most film
scanners have a bias to give better results in the Green Channel (Magenta in CMYK
mode). However, some images might be better in the other Channels, or even when
using two channels together. In PhotoShop, the Channels Palette allows you to
view Channels individually, or combined. With a little practice, you should be
able to do this very quickly, and get much nicer scanned B/W results.


Thanks for the reply Gordon. I did have the best results using this method.

However, for a lark, I just tried Silverfast and OH MY, the results are
very impressive.


Care to post before and after ?



--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

quote who= Alan Browne /:

Care to post before and after ?

Sure. Same scanner, with using auto levels in PS.

Dimage Scan Softwa

http://www.shampoo.ca/lady.jpg

Silverfast:

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/portugal_2004/lady

J

--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

"Justin F. Knotzke" wrote:

quote who= Gordon Moat /:

If you scan your B/W as a colour transparency, the first step in your editing
software is to invert the image, so it gives a more normal appearance. Then you
can judge the image better, so the next step is viewing each colour channel (RGB
mode). If you are not sure of the differences in RGB mode, switch the file to
CMYK, and view each of those channels. Then using either mode, try to eliminate
one, or more channels that are not giving a good image quality. Often most film
scanners have a bias to give better results in the Green Channel (Magenta in CMYK
mode). However, some images might be better in the other Channels, or even when
using two channels together. In PhotoShop, the Channels Palette allows you to
view Channels individually, or combined. With a little practice, you should be
able to do this very quickly, and get much nicer scanned B/W results.

Thanks for the reply Gordon. I did have the best results using this method.

Glad to be of help.



However, for a lark, I just tried Silverfast and OH MY, the results are
very impressive.

Agreed, SilverFast is some nice software.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com
http://www.agstudiopro.com Coming Soon!