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  #11  
Old January 28th 05, 11:34 PM
Charles Schuler
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The "debate" was a long time ago and it is over. "zlr", for lack of a
better
name was agreed to and the definition of what it covered was agreed to.


It's not over till it's over.


  #12  
Old January 29th 05, 03:14 AM
J.S.Pitanga
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[Alan Browne:]
The "debate" was a long time ago and it
is over.


Of course. The recent debate was just about the foolishness of the outcome
of the previous "debate" you are referring to.

"zlr", for lack of a better name was agreed
to and the definition of what it covered was agreed to.


A recent debate established very clearly the foolishness of naming EVFs
"ZLRs". But this debate was already some time ago and it is over - please
don't insist on it unless you have fresh reasons to offer, which is
obviously not the case.

Is it perfect? No. Does it have its place?
Absolutely. Are there other places for P&S, DSLR
and rangefinders? Yes. Is there a place for
general discussions about digital? Yep.


You are mixing up two competely different issues, to wit the
inappropriateness of naming EVFs "ZLRs" and the usefulness of a group
about EVFs.

Julio.
  #13  
Old January 30th 05, 11:01 PM
Roland Karlsson
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Alan Browne wrote in
:

The "debate" was a long time ago and it is over. "zlr", for lack of a
better name was agreed to and the definition of what it covered was
agreed to.

Is it perfect? No. Does it have its place? Absolutely.


Hi Alan - you have to just accept that this issue will pop up all
the time. When you "steal" an acronym that has another meaning, you
are bound to get some questions and objections sometimes.

ZLR = Zoom Lens Reflex camera. It was invented by Olympus for their
rather nice and innovative camera series for film way back then.
And there are some few examples of the same technology for digital,
om-10 and om-20 comes to my mind.

For this group - what the #¤%¤#" should the acronyme ZLR be read as?
Z - EH? - all cameras in this group has Zoom, but that have most other.
L - EH? - all cameras in this group have a Lens, but ...
R - EH? - Reflex? - why?

So - it is zero hits at three tries. Better luck the next time
anyone makes a new news group.


/Roland
  #14  
Old January 31st 05, 01:12 AM
Per Nordenberg
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"Roland Karlsson" skrev i meddelandet
...
ZLR = Zoom Lens Reflex camera. It was invented by Olympus for their
rather nice and innovative camera series for film way back then.
And there are some few examples of the same technology for digital,
om-10 and om-20 comes to my mind.


Hej Roland!
I think you mean Olympus E-10 and E-20. OM-10 and OM-20 were the first consumer grade cameras in the
Olympus' OM series of film SLR cameras.

Regards,

Per Nordenberg

  #15  
Old January 31st 05, 11:12 AM
David J Taylor
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Roland Karlsson wrote:
Alan Browne wrote in
:

The "debate" was a long time ago and it is over. "zlr", for lack of
a better name was agreed to and the definition of what it covered was
agreed to.

Is it perfect? No. Does it have its place? Absolutely.


Hi Alan - you have to just accept that this issue will pop up all
the time. When you "steal" an acronym that has another meaning, you
are bound to get some questions and objections sometimes.


However often the issue pops up, there is no mechanism for changing a
newsgroup's name, so objections are pointless. As Alan says, we had a
debate and ZLR was the best that anyone suggested, and the photographic
press use the term to describe today's high-end SLR-like point and shoot
cameras.

Effort would now be better directed towards helping those who ask
questions in the group.

Cheers,
David


  #16  
Old January 31st 05, 11:02 PM
J.S.Pitanga
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[David J Taylor:]
However often the issue pops up, there
is no mechanism for changing a newsgroup's
name,


If so (which I doubt), the best is to put an end at once to this
unfortunate newsgroup, which is only feeding the marketing lie that EVFs
are a kind of reflex cameras, and to start another newsgroup such as
"rec.photo.digital.evf".

so objections are pointless.


For as long as objections are helping people not to be deceived by
shameless lies such as suggesting that a EVF is a reflex camera they will
always have a great point.

As Alan says, we had a debate and ZLR was
the best that anyone suggested,


The problem is that who was deciding that such as misnaming was "the best"
were people without any notion of what does it mean the word "reflex". And
nothing better than the ignorance and naivete of the user to feed and
spread marketing lies.

and the photographic press use the term to
describe today's high-end SLR-like point and
shoot cameras.


Serious photogaphers and discriminating photographic press consistently
use the term "EVF" to refer to EVFs. Commercial sites and press-releases,
together with some ignoramuses, often use the terms "ZLR" and "SLR-like"
in order better to induce customers into the mistaken belief that they are
paying for a reflex camera (specially when they pay a lot for a so-called
high-end camera).

Such commercial photographic "press" is very careful never to use the term
"EVF" when referring to EVFs, as this would betray their deception, and
thus defeat their misleading marketing purposes.

Effort would now be better directed towards
helping those who ask questions in the group.


If you sincerely want to help people, your effort is much better directed
towards stopping feeding and spreading lies such as giving the name
"reflex" (as in "ZLR") to cameras which are not reflex, as opposed to the
commercial interests of manufacturers and sellers you are naively
furthering.

But, since now even the founders of this newsgroup know that an EVF is not
a reflex camera, their stubborn insistence on such a marketing lie
completely detracts from the honesty of their stated purpose of providing
users with helpful and useful information. This newsgroup became a fraud
(benevolently assuming that it was not a fraud from the start).

The best,

Julio.
  #17  
Old February 1st 05, 12:26 AM
Bill Again
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Default


"J.S.Pitanga" wrote in message
news
[David J Taylor:]
However often the issue pops up, there
is no mechanism for changing a newsgroup's
name,


If so (which I doubt), the best is to put an end at once to this
unfortunate newsgroup, which is only feeding the marketing lie that EVFs
are a kind of reflex cameras, and to start another newsgroup such as
"rec.photo.digital.evf".

so objections are pointless.


For as long as objections are helping people not to be deceived by
shameless lies such as suggesting that a EVF is a reflex camera they will
always have a great point.

As Alan says, we had a debate and ZLR was
the best that anyone suggested,


The problem is that who was deciding that such as misnaming was "the best"
were people without any notion of what does it mean the word "reflex". And
nothing better than the ignorance and naivete of the user to feed and
spread marketing lies.

and the photographic press use the term to
describe today's high-end SLR-like point and
shoot cameras.


Serious photogaphers and discriminating photographic press consistently
use the term "EVF" to refer to EVFs. Commercial sites and press-releases,
together with some ignoramuses, often use the terms "ZLR" and "SLR-like"
in order better to induce customers into the mistaken belief that they are
paying for a reflex camera (specially when they pay a lot for a so-called
high-end camera).

Such commercial photographic "press" is very careful never to use the term
"EVF" when referring to EVFs, as this would betray their deception, and
thus defeat their misleading marketing purposes.

Effort would now be better directed towards
helping those who ask questions in the group.


If you sincerely want to help people, your effort is much better directed
towards stopping feeding and spreading lies such as giving the name
"reflex" (as in "ZLR") to cameras which are not reflex, as opposed to the
commercial interests of manufacturers and sellers you are naively
furthering.

But, since now even the founders of this newsgroup know that an EVF is not
a reflex camera, their stubborn insistence on such a marketing lie
completely detracts from the honesty of their stated purpose of providing
users with helpful and useful information. This newsgroup became a fraud
(benevolently assuming that it was not a fraud from the start).

The best,

Julio.


Julio,

If you don't like it then why don't you simply go away? You add nothing to
the situation except a load of bitching and frankly that is simply boring.

That's all.

Robert pleased to see a useful group


  #18  
Old February 1st 05, 02:11 AM
Deputy Dog
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Default

Funny thing.............when you **** in the wind you tend to get some on
yourself. think on it !

Dave

"J.S.Pitanga" wrote in message
news
[David J Taylor:]
However often the issue pops up, there
is no mechanism for changing a newsgroup's
name,


If so (which I doubt), the best is to put an end at once to this
unfortunate newsgroup, which is only feeding the marketing lie that EVFs
are a kind of reflex cameras, and to start another newsgroup such as
"rec.photo.digital.evf".

so objections are pointless.


For as long as objections are helping people not to be deceived by
shameless lies such as suggesting that a EVF is a reflex camera they will
always have a great point.

As Alan says, we had a debate and ZLR was
the best that anyone suggested,


The problem is that who was deciding that such as misnaming was "the best"
were people without any notion of what does it mean the word "reflex". And
nothing better than the ignorance and naivete of the user to feed and
spread marketing lies.

and the photographic press use the term to
describe today's high-end SLR-like point and
shoot cameras.


Serious photogaphers and discriminating photographic press consistently
use the term "EVF" to refer to EVFs. Commercial sites and press-releases,
together with some ignoramuses, often use the terms "ZLR" and "SLR-like"
in order better to induce customers into the mistaken belief that they are
paying for a reflex camera (specially when they pay a lot for a so-called
high-end camera).

Such commercial photographic "press" is very careful never to use the term
"EVF" when referring to EVFs, as this would betray their deception, and
thus defeat their misleading marketing purposes.

Effort would now be better directed towards
helping those who ask questions in the group.


If you sincerely want to help people, your effort is much better directed
towards stopping feeding and spreading lies such as giving the name
"reflex" (as in "ZLR") to cameras which are not reflex, as opposed to the
commercial interests of manufacturers and sellers you are naively
furthering.

But, since now even the founders of this newsgroup know that an EVF is not
a reflex camera, their stubborn insistence on such a marketing lie
completely detracts from the honesty of their stated purpose of providing
users with helpful and useful information. This newsgroup became a fraud
(benevolently assuming that it was not a fraud from the start).

The best,

Julio.



  #19  
Old February 1st 05, 02:47 AM
J.S.Pitanga
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

[Bill Again:]
If you don't like it then why don't
you simply go away?


Who told you that I don't like whatever? Actually, I have a lot of
pleasure showing a fraud for what it is. But since this disturbs you,
please feel free to go away.

You add nothing to the situation


You are being a it too negative, dear Bill. I am adding to the fraud the
notion that it is a fraud.

except a load of bitching and frankly
that is simply boring.


Only a stupid person would answer to a post he finds boring. But maybe you
did find it boring, whence your answer.

Robert pleased to see a useful group


And I thought you were bored!

The best,

Julio.
  #20  
Old February 1st 05, 02:59 AM
J.S.Pitanga
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Posts: n/a
Default

[Bill Rude:]
If you don't like this newsgroup as
is, don't use it, go away, you won't be
missed.


Of course I love this newsgroup as what it became: an exposed fraud
intended to serve deceptive interests of marketers under the guise of
serving users. This is what all this "ZLR" story is about.

The best,

Julio.
 




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