HEMI-Powered wrote:

I said I don't want to start any religious wars, and I will not.
But, going from 8-bit software to 16-bit costs money I don't want
to spend, and my personal skill level is woefully inadequate to
know what to do with 16-bit, much less RAW.

In this NG, people run the gamut from rank novices to very
advanced amateurs to pros, with all types and prices of cameras,
and software as simple as Irfanview or as complex, expensive, and
difficult to learn as PS CS. So, /I/ do not think that making the
jump to either 16-bit or RAW is at all trivial. I take nothing
away from you or anyone who's mastered it, but sometimes we
humans forget the difficulties we had the the steepness of the
learning curve. I would've long ago gone to RAW if I could find
even ONE book that explained how to properly use it that was NOT
aimed specifically at PhotoShop. There is no straight-forward way
I know of to translate the workflow into PSP 9. I do not like how
Corel mangled PSP X and PSP XI, so have not gone to them. I will
probably cut over to PS Elements when I get my next computer, but
that most likely is a year away.


I didn't say it was trivial. I said it doesn't require the user to be
advanced. My daughter was using my computer with Adobe Lightroom on it and
she picked up how to use it on her own. She is 14 and by no means a computer
whiz. Further, she did it without my help, as she was editting [JPEG] files
she took on her P&S. However, working with RAW and 16-bit in this
environment is nearly transparent.

So, I would ask you or anyone implying that 16-bit and RAW are
simple to learn to consider the needs, wants, and time budget of
us lesser homo sapiens. Thank you.

I never once used the words "simple to learn". I said you don't have to be
advanced. There are plenty of books out there on RAW workflow that are pretty
good, and you are free to read them. Further, there are many websites as
well, which are free for your viewing pleasure.

You didn't quite answer my question. What I am curious about is
if any cameras or scanners can output a FULL 16-bit color bitmap
and are there any apps that can process all 16 across their
entire function/tool/feature set. I understand the loss if a 12-
bit RAW is downgraded to 8-bit anything, especially JPEG, so I'm
still in inquisative mode.


The image is FULL 16-bit color. The ADC and source sensor may or may not be
16-bit. Most modern DSLR source at 12-bit and a couple new ones claim 14-bit.
My old Nikon Coolscan had a 14-bit ADC in it as well, but 16-bit was available
for a premium. Moving from 12-bit to 16-bit should incur no loss, and indeed,
it offers additional room for manipulation (so it is even worthwhile to
convert 8-bit to 16-bit and then do your manipulations and finally convert
back to 8-bit for printing or what have you).

Now, I have never met anyone who didn't think their own pictures
could be made better. I've not asked you, but then, we don't know
each other well. But, I use both the 80/20 Rule and the Law of
Diminshing Returns to govern how much time and effort to devote
to any editing task.

I tend to preprocess in groups. I went out to the Bad Lands of South Dakota
last June followed by the Black Hills. I processed all the photos from a
given session at one time in just a couple of minutes. Then I look for photos
that I might like to further work with. That often happens months later BTW.
I find the photo of interest and look more closely, perhaps correct for
chromatic aberation if it exists, exposure, color, curves. I might even get
more creative and create a composite or do some HDR work sourcing from several
frames. My point though, is that the initial processing is usually quite fast
and pretty high level.

Some of my car pictures are easy enough to
do in a few minutes, most are in the 15-20 minute range, and a
sizable enough number get into 30, 60, more. Since I am a
documentary rather than a creative or artistic photographer of
cars, I have many other interests than spending all day on a
small series of cars shot at an outdoor show or museum with or
without flash. Again, people hereabouts run a really wide gamut
of skills, but much more importantly, not everybody wants, much
less needs, all the sophistication. My daughter, for example,
does just a quicky crop and resame down and takes here SD card to
Meijer to print 4x6. That's all she wants. I can't argue with her
logic even though I disagree because she's an adult who has the
freedom to do what she pleases with her time and money.

Sounds like you are in need of a workflow. Again, I suggest a good book, but
won't suggest a specific book to you at this time. I recommend you consider
a RAW workflow as well, but that is up to you.

/I/ know that both size and compression have a greater or lesser
effect on final technical quality, but did the OP in this thread?
His OP was down so low in the grass, he wanted just a simple
recommendation as to how to start taking "good" pictures, and
never came back - I don't think - to even clarify his criteria
for "good".


Perhaps he read what he needed and just lurks. Usenet threads often mutate
and that is an expected occurance on USENET (or any threaded forum).

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.