"Q.G. de Bakker" wrote:

Gordon Moat wrote:

It's that digital definitely is the future. And the moment that it will
take
over in all aspects (including quality - in the "more than good enough"
bracket) is getting closer and closer.

Definitely, and it is the "more than good enough" attitude that I think
sucks.
Too many people are becoming satisfied with mediocre. Of course, I see
that in
more than just photography, so perhaps it is a reflection of current
society.

You dont seem to grasp what "more than good enough" means.
It does not (!) mean mediocre.

Well, in southern California, if you use that phrase, it does mean mediocre. I
guess this is the difference of the parts of the world where both of us reside.

. . . . . . . .

[...]

The consumer end drives the main photographic market, yet I think few
enthusiasts nor professionals would use the biggest selling consumer film
product: one time use cameras. I don't think medium format has ever been
much
in the general consumer view, with the possible exception of folder
cameras a
long time ago.

Well, that "long time ago" is indeed where MF has been in general consumer
use (but not just folders. there were many box-cameras too). Some might even
argue that that's where the non-general consumer use of MF belongs too: some
period in the past best forgotten.
Anyway, a few enthusiasts and/or professionals will not keep MF afloat. The
balance will not tip backwards towards film based MF again. So it's now or
never: MF manufacturers (or rather the companies making the things that plug
current MF systems into the Digido) must do all they can to prevent their
current users switching to other things in the first place.

I will comment more in some other parts of this thread, since several other
people have brought up some points to consider. Basically, taking your
pessimistic view into account (and it might be 100% correct), I think all the
medium format companies should just liquidate their assets this year, and shut
down their companies.


. . . . . . . .

[...] Bottom line is that these are very expensive cameras, and the
economy is
still down.

Plus, of course, it (Rollei AF) is not the only option beckoning those
people who do still have money to spend...

Which seems like thriving in a niche market could be an answer. The problem
then becomes what volume of sales will sustain a niche? Large format is already
a niche market, yet there is still diversity, just as an example.



. . . . . . .

And i don't see much of a retro market either. What "retro" product can
you
see selling anywhere?

The greatest retro market is automotive (and a few motorcycles) based on
[...]
Perhaps the reason you do not see much "retro" market is that you are not
a
consumer of those types of things. It could also be that it is more of a
US (or
North American) trend, and not very prominent in Europe.

I see.

No, the very reason why i do not see that retro market was because i was
thinking photography. Apart form a brief 35 mm RF revival (which realy has
gone again already), there simply is no retro-trend in photography.

The only retro photography trend I see, and mostly southern California (and
some other cites in the US), is more younger people buying used film cameras.
These could be considered accessories to match trendy retro style clothing
(especially anything with "That 70's" look), though the funny thing is that
many of these used camera buyers actually use their gear. While they may not
fit into enthusiast, nor consumer models, many of them like the aspect of
controlling the camera, rather than the automation controlling them. This is
the "technology backlash" reaction to too much technology in everyday life.
Retro is popular because it reminds one of simpler times, even though that
memory is created in those that did not live in those times.


If anything, traditional brands most associated with "the good old days" of
photography are in danger of becoming extinct. The only true, and strong,
trend in photography today is that digi-thingy.

True, based on volume sales, or even number of articles. Of course, the reality
is about as true as the "paperless office". I think wireless imaging will soon
become the next big thing, and the future volume leader of "photography" (if
you can still call that photography).



Whether it is something i like or not, whether i would part with my beloved
MF equipment or not gladly is another matter. But that's the reality: we,
the customers, drive the market. And we drive it towards digital. And that
drive results in digital becoming better and affordable too. And at the same
time it is driving MF towards its end.

So again, why should the medium format companies even continue? Why not
liquidate now, and get a last profit off their assets? Why did the distributor
for Hasselblad buy the company? Why did Tamron buy Bronica? Why does Mamiya
still advertise? Why did Rollei and Contax make autofocus cameras?



I only have a smaller view of marketing efforts in Europe, though in North
America, it seems that Mamiya are the only company that really advertises
in
many locations. Some of that is combined digital and film capability
promotion,
and some directed at the Mamiya 7 II. I rarely see Hasselblad products in
many
ads, though that could be from the financial issues they had (maybe the
buyout
could help that). With Rollei, hardly anyone knows these cameras in the
US,
except in reference to really old Rollei TLR cameras. Most of the very
sparse
Rollei ads are for P&S film and digital.

I don't think MF manufacturers should advertise more. It would do absolutely
no good. Unless...

They (MF manufacturers) should instead go banging their fists on MF digital
back manufacturer's tables, demanding they come up with more sensibly priced
products, explaining that if they don't the game's over for both (!)
manufacturers of MF equipment and the manufacturers of digital backs that
have to be hung on MF cameras.

I think the price point will always be high. Even with Kodak making digital
backs, any Medium Format direct digital will be high. If you compare to the
cost of a scanner, around $2000, that is the competition for digital backs, and
I don't see them ever getting close. With that in mind, they (MF companies)
should liquidate assets this year.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com