On 2017-04-20 21:16:50 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:42:58 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

Snip

Well, I don't. I started with film, and had the requisite bathroom
darkroom. The only thing I didn't do was develop the film. Going
through the film steps, which you and Tony enjoyed, drove me up the
wall. I hated every bit of it, and nearly gave up on photography. But
more to the point, I disagree completely that the film steps are
*artistically* different from the digital steps. You are doing the
same thing, only with one you are using toxic chemicals, awkwardly
working slowly with trial and error, whereas with the other, you are
working towards identical artistic goals, but working much more
quickly. And the more quickly you can work, the more time you can
spend getting things exactly as you want them. Better yet, when you
fumble around with digital, all you waste is some electron flow and
some time, as opposed to some pricey chemicals and paper.

I respect those who work with film, it's hard. But I still don't think
there is any remaining legitimate reason for it, except for personal
entertainment, or sense of achievement.

(Laughing!) What else *is* there for the non-professional
photographer?

Unless we are getting paid to take photographs, the only reason we do
so is as a form of entertainment and to gain a sense of achievement.

Yup!

And, is either of those not a legitimate reason to pursue the hobby?
When it comes to hobby activities, anything that a person does because
they enjoy doing it or gain a sense of achievement from it is
legitimate.

I never for one minute had a thought of using photography for anything
other than a hobby.

That last sentence of yours in the penultimate paragraph is a hoot!
Pricy chemicals and paper?

So much more than chemicals and paper (though I still buy paper and
ink). There are tanks, clips, thermometers, trays, enlarger, I even had
a print dryer-glazer. Then there is plumbing and the pretense of
responsible chemical disposal.
All of my darkroom equipment was sold not long after I left college and
I went into something of a photography hiatus for many years with just
the occasional roll of 35mm run through either my Pentax or my Yashica,
and processed and printed by various labs.

....and then came digital and my enthusiasm was revived. Once I retired
I had the time to indulge myself once again.

Pretty much everyone reading this has several thousand dollars
invested in digital camera kit and software.

Yup!
Check with PeterN, Eric, Jonas, Davoud (David), Alan Browne, and the
two of us. I don't think there is a single pro photographer among us.

And, some like the Duck,
are contemplating spending a couple of thou more upgrading and adding
to what they already have.

Just spent $1599 on my new camera, and I will probably buy another lens
or three. What I have found with the Fujifilm X-series cameras, has
been a return to thinking about photography as if I were shooting film,
which is something I never experienced with any of my Nikons, and I am
enjoying myself.

And, he's burning a lot of gas and time
driving out to take snapshots of a field of wildflowers.

Why not? It was just an hour drive each way, and I had nothing else to do.
Ain't retirement fun?

There's not a non-professional here who can justify the time and
expense of photography - film or digital - if you consider what
doesn't need to be done to not be a "legitimate" expenditure of money
or time.

Not one cent of what I have spent on photography, film & digital, over
50+ years as a hobbyist photographer can be explained away rationally.

Since when do we need a "reason" to pursue a hobby from which we
derive pleasure? Since when is someone else's way of pursuing a hobby
not legitimate?

I have known folks who did some of the most obscure and pointless (and
sometimes expensive) things as hobbies.

A hobby is not supposed to be the most efficient way to get something
done. It's supposed to be the most enjoyable way to get it done. Only
a soulless cretin would say "i also wasn't talking about some fuzzy
unquantifiable 'experience'" when it is the experience that is what a
hobby is all about.

Yup!


--
Regards,

Savageduck