"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Neil Harrington wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message


The "pictograms" in question are the exposure mode ones such as little
flowers, a background in or out of focus, "sunny" "backlit" etc. These
are for people who really do not have a care for what goes into
photography.


The little flower is a logical pictogram for close-up mode. It takes up
less space than printing "CLOSE-UP" on or near the button would, which is
important for compact and ultracompact cameras. Since it's a function of
the lens rather than the body, it does not appear on any digital SLR as
far as I know, and the others you mention rarely if ever appear on any
type of camera I've seen.

Maxxum 5. Several Canon EOS', Nikon 55, others.

Sorry, I meant any type of digital cameras. My bad, I should have been more
specific.





Perhaps you have a camera with no pictograms at all. That sounds like a
Baby Brownie. Some day you too may have a camera with lots of body
buttons, dials, levers, switches, etc. and you will appreciate the
little pictograms.

I assure that my Maxxum 9 and 7D do not have any pictorgrams and they


If your 7D doesn't have any pictograms it's a very unusual one, since the
standard 7D has lots of them.



are also replete with all the buttons/switches/levers/dials etc. that you
can shale a stick at. I do lie a bit, the 7D has a pictogram for the
anti-shake.


It should have a lot more pictograms than that! Pictograms for single
frame, continuous advance, self-timer and bracketing -- and that's just
on the drive mode dial (you can find it under the exposure mode dial). On
the back there are more pictograms for display, magnification, delete
(see that cute little trash can?), playback, metering mode, etc. I think
you need to look at your 7D more carefully.

Metering mode on my 7D is simply "P" "(P)" "A" "S" "M" "1" "2" "3".

Well, those are mostly exposure modes, not metering modes per se.


Where are the pictorgram? Nope. None.

Check the back of the camera, the switch around the AEL button. Icons
(pictograms if you like) for center weighted, matrix, and spot metering.



The "pictorgrams" being discussed are the exposure mode pictograms to give
non photographers instant settings for those situations for which they
can't remember a few simple concepts. (As I clarified a couple posts
ago).

Well, there are pictograms and pictograms. Now you seem to saying *some*
pictograms are contemptible because they're "to give non photographers
instant settings for those situations for which they can't remember a few
simple concepts," while other pictograms are okay. This is quite different
from your original insistence that *any* camera with pictograms must be a
"P&S" or at best a "glorified P&S."



A flower. A face. A figure with sun behind it. Things a photographer
doesn't need a pictorgram for; things a photographer simply sets correctly
in terms of aperture, speed and fill flash if required.

Those are useful things for photographers as well as those you sniff at as
"non photographers." I find those icons useful, and I've been a photography
enthusiast for about 55 years.



A close up magnifying glass; a trashcan are _functions_ for which those
pictos are entirely logical.

So? They are still just as much pictograms as a flower or anything else that
conveys some operational idea to the user. How is a flower meaning
"close-up" or a lady's head meaning "portrait" any less "entirely logical"
than those icons you approve of?


They have nothing to do with photography but data management, viewing,
etc. The pictograms for the transport (bracketting, volley fire, etc.)
are likewise modes for how the shutter button reacts. I have no objection
to those and, in any case, if you showed them to a non-photgrapher he'd be
as puzzled as could be without recourse to the manual.

In some cases yes, in other cases certainly not. What else would a trashcan
icon convey to any user than what it means?

As for those icons you approve of, for example a magnifying glass with a
plus sign, how mysterious would this be to a brand-new inexperienced user?
And for how long? Just until he read about it in the manual, or even just
pressed it during replay. From that point it would be entirely clear to him
and it's unlikely he'd ever forget it. So now he's a real, full-fledged
photographer instead of a "non photographer"?



Touchy, touchy. If you didn't have all those pictograms on your 7D you'd
be at a serious disadvantage -- but of course it's possible you never use
those features or adjustments anyway so it doesn't matter to you. For
example, if you never have occasion to switch metering mode between
center-weighted, matrix and spot, then I suppose you can just leave that
switch in the position it came in out of the box, and never worry about
it.

See above. You've missed the whole point. Entirely. The metering
"weight" switch, like other functional switches, presents functional and
useful symbols.

They *all* "present functional and useful symbols." Every icon has something
to do with the operation of the camera. It's just that some represent
shortcuts that you don't approve of. You apparently believe that doing every
step individually and separately implies some higher, more arcane, more
prestigious way of going about the business of taking photographs, and this
is important to you for its own sake.


It does not present a little rubber ducky or smiling sun to suggest what I
should use it for.

Well, I can't imagine a "little rubber ducky" icon -- maybe that would be
for using the camera in an underwater case or something?



That is what the "pictograms" on the metering mode dial are for: non
thinking photographers with a camera. Glorified P&S' in other words. The
A100 has 6 such modes on the exposure mode dial. P&S.

Any camera with that dial on it cannot be "point and shoot" in anything
remotely like the original, and still current, meaning of that term. Real
point-and-shoot cameras don't offer different exposure modes. As soon as you
add any sort of user controls over exposure, etc., you have taken the
instrument out of the point-and-shoot category.

Take a look at a Konica Big Mini, for example. There's a point-and-shoot for
you. Icons? A couple, self timer and infinity focus. Exposure mode dial? No.
Metering mode dial or switch? No. Any user controls at all over details of
exposure or focus? No. Even something with a flower pictogram? No. That's
what P&S means, Alan. Something you just point and shoot, no controls at
all.

Neil