On 2012-08-02 08:14:07 -0700, otter said:

On Aug 1, 10:32*am, Savageduck wrote:
On 2012-08-01 06:35:44 -0700, otter said:









On Jul 31, 7:20 pm, Robert Coe wrote:

I take your point. Maybe I phrased the issue in terms too black and wh
ite
. But
most contributors to the SI participate in the expectation of receivin
g f
rank
comments, and I think most welcome them.

I think some do expect, and welcome criticism of their submissions,
and some don't - they just want to share their creative efforts with
others.

I suspect that those who don't particularly want their submissions
criticized are also the the ones who don't offer criticism themself,
and the one ones that do are the ones that give long detailed feedback
on each picture.

The commentary is an important part of the SI, and regardless of the
individual motivation for sharing images, the thing to remember that in
this game of semantics we are using "comments" rather than "criticism".
Those commenting should think of themselves as well meaning, honest
writers expressing opinion and advice, rather than NYT "critics" or
photo competition judges sometimes maliciously picking at that which
displeases them.

There is no judgement in the SI as it is not a competition, it is meant
to be fun, sharing, learning and inspirational experience for all.

Another thing to remember is, the nature of everyone here on the
Usenet, and those submitting to the SI is a need for some sort of
recognition. It is just part of human nature. So I suspect that if
consistently nothing is said about a particular photographer's SI image
submissions, that photographer would soon be absent from the group.



Since it take time and effort to give that kind of feedback, perhaps a
reasonable compromise is to just do it for others who do likewise.

Then who starts the ball rolling with the first comment?

How does that commentator select the first image that is comment
worthy, without knowing if it is available for comment or not?

I am prepared to wait for the first word to be dropped, rather than
grinding through all of them and wasting my time when only two or three
want to hear any opinion on their image.

So using your suggestion, for the next SI, "On the Road" we should
anticipate zero comments, followed by Usenet post asking why there are
no comments. Followed up with the next SI with a drop in image
submissions.

I am prepared to give each of those who have stepped up to share images
via the SI recognition that they had done so, sometimes in the face of
the withering scorn of those who deride and condemn the SI.
We have been fortunate in the past few months to see some newcomers to
the SI, but we have also had our dropouts over the years. Then we have
those who for whatever reason will not share, or doing their best to
discourage entry to the SI.

...but maybe I will just wait this time to see what comments appear.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

Group dynamics are not the same as a computer program. No one is
going to read my comments and follow them literally, with step by step
consequences.

I was reaching for the absurd conclusion there, to make a point. ;-)

There are several SI contributers that have a long
history of posting pictures but no comments. My take is that they are
not interested so much in critique, but in seeing their pictures
displayed. I think many of those are not all that interested in
"improving", and/or simply disregard comments anyway.

However it is a leap in logic to conclude that just because they don't
make comments, that they have no wish to have their work commented on,
even if it is just getting the satisfaction of a compliment.

So, are you proposing that SI contributors who don't care about
comments, should add an "NC" tag to the image label letting us know
that it is not necessary to comment on their work?

There is also the consideration that images published in public (and
there isn't a more public place than the internet, of which Usenet is a
part) can be provocative, and beg comment regardless of the intent of
the photographer.

I would like to hear from these photographers who would not care to
have some comment on their work.
I gather you are confirming your status as one who would rather not
hear what others think of your work.

There are many ways for folks to share their images with those
following Usenet photo groups, and many of us use all of them. Here in
the non-binary groups we use URL links to cloud and photo sharing
sites. Many times it is done to demonstrate part of a discussion, or
those such as Bret, who just likes to remind us of his talent from time
to time.

Then there are the folks over at alt.binaries.photos.original who share
images ranging from the extraordinary to the banal snapshot, all
without shame, and without venomous reaction.

I also think you over-value comments in regards to the success of the
SI, but I'm not going to campaign for eliminating them. If it make
people happy to do it, fine with me.

Perhaps. However, It would be foolish to discount the importance
comments play in the dialog that is the SI, from meeting the challenge
of the mandate, to reacting to each of the images. While that reaction
can certainly be cloaked in a personal silence, I believe that
eliminating comments would damage the SI beyond repair.




--
Regards,

Savageduck