In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

you didn't know what automatic meant and you think all base stations
have vertically polarized antennas.

I certainly don't know what *anything* means to *you*!

it's what the industry defines it as, not me. *they* are the ones
calling it automatic.

stop trying to weasel out of it.

I merely asked exactly what you meant, since *you*
didn't have the sense to explain yourself. That is
hardly trying to weasel out of anything.

In fact we were talking about a client automatically
changing channels to match the AP, and when you said
the AP could be automatic is certainly made me think
you were saying the AP adjusts to the client. That
doesn't make sense, so I simply asked what you meant
by "automatic".

i'm not the one who first mentioned automatic. you got even that wrong.

more importantly, many routers support automatic channel selection.
it's not a new concept. how can you *not* know about it?? when's the
last time you bought a router?

Pretty reasonable... but you aren't.

you claim to be the expert in everything so i assumed you knew what
automatic was, especially since routers from many manufacturers these
days (maybe even most) have it. again, it's not new.

the natural conclusion was you were trying to play word games to avoid
admitting you're wrong.

And yes, virtually all base stations ahve vertically
polarized antennas.

previously, you said all, now it's virtually all? hilarious.

Same thing. You probably don't know what the
significance is anyway.

i know full well what the significance is. knock off the insults and
stay on topic.

Of course many if not most
units have always had antennas that can be adjusted.

which means they can have any polarization anyone wants. if you think
every user keeps them vertical, you're delusional. a lot of times i see
one vertical and one horizontal.

They *all* recommend using vertical polarization,

no they definitely don't do that. you're wrong again.

not only do they not recommend anything, but they don't even *mention*
polarization anywhere in the user manuals!

but
there are good reasons to use horizontal in some special
circumstances (mostly to restrict the range).

that's a change from what you said the other day.

so now there's a reason for horizontal? you're weaseling, again.

by the way, horizontal polarization can *increase* range for some
clients, such as smartphones, whose orientation is unknown and can
change at any time.

not that it matters. it's nowhere close to 'virtually all.' travel
routers, for example, are polarized in whatever orientation they happen
to be when used, particularly the battery operated ones, such as a
cellular mifi device.

And any instructions that mention antenna orientation
will say to position the unit in a way the results in
vertical orientation.

wrong.

you're out of touch with the real world and talking out your ass, again.

there are no such instructions in any of the travel routers i have, 3
different ones, from 3 different manufacturers (apple, linksys & zoom).
i checked two more user manuals for ones i don't have (verizon mifi &
netcomm) and both of those didn't mention antenna orientation either.
that's 5 out of 5 that don't say a single thing about it!

furthermore, two of them (linksys & apple) have a built-in ac power
plug so the orientation is dependent on the wall outlet. if the wall
outlet is horizontal, so is the travel router. although many wall
outlets are vertical, not all of them are, especially in hotels where
such a router is likely to be used.

the third travel router i have uses batteries and it can be in any
orientation. it's thin and flat (roughly the size and shape of a deck
of playing cards) and it's highly likely the polarization is *not*
vertical when sitting on a table.

Again, that is because vertical *is* the standard (for
very good reasons), and will generally produce the best
results. In the case of a direct line of sight with no
multi-path there is about 30 dB loss from cross
polarization.

except that you cannot know the orientation of the client devices.

vertical might have been preferred at one time but it's certainly not
now.

in the real world (not your world), smartphones, tablets and even
laptops are used in many orientations, not just vertical. they can be
horizontal, vertical and everything in between. many times the device
is rotated during use.

that's why some wifi base stations have *both* vertical and horizontal
polarizations, or in some cases, at 45 degree offsets. other base
stations may be one or the other, sometimes vertical and sometimes not.

in the real world, polarization makes almost no difference to the user
(as opposed to lab instruments). this is easily shown by rotating a
smartphone or tablet and things keep working just as before.

can a lab instrument measure a difference? probably, but if the user
can continue to do whatever it was they were doing even though they
rotated the device, then it does not matter what some lab instrument
measures. to the user (which is what matters), it continues to work.
again, real world situations.

I haven't seen the insides of some of the smaller WIFI
units for cameras and similar devices, but I would guess
that at least some of them use circular polarization,
just to avoid excessive loss from cross polarization.

this is about routers, not cameras or other devices. travel routers are
generally used relatively close to the client, so there's no need for
anything fancy.

Sigh. I drew a graphic and made a chart previously that showed
*precisely*
what the channel separation is.

The simple fact is that yes it will increase interference if you choose
anything else.

it will not increase anything.

Just interference.

nope.

Ignorance is bliss, and you seem blissful enough.

then you must be incredibly happy.

by the way, there are more sources of interference than just other wifi
routers.