In article , Eric Stevens wrote:

Sandman:
Incorrect. The conclusion that you are lying is based on your
inability to provide substantiation, period.

Well, when you ask for the engineering certificates of racing
drivers I know you are not seriously looking for evidence of their
technical competence: either that or you think that all skills can
engrained by training. Either way, there is no point in trying to
satisfy you.

You'd have a point if you had provided another, equally viable, support.
Which of course you didn't. I even told you that I just wanted to share in
on the source of your intel, the information you used when you made the
explicit claim of *ALL* "successful" drivers. You weren't able to provide
*ANY* support for this claim. This was an *assumption* on your part and
should have been phrased as such.

However, when you first started telling me I was lying you never
even asked for evidence or gave me the chance to produce it.

Incorrect. I spent some two weeks asking you to back up your claims. You
failed.

Sandman:
Which would be a viable option, if what you said was true. Since
what you said concerned knowledge on my part, I knew for a fact
from the outset that your claim was untrue, so there was no
possible scenario where you said something true and then were
unable to support it.

So, from the beginning, you prejudged my veracity.

No, I knew you were wrong, I didn't "prejudge" you. You made a claim about
me that was false, full stop. I asked you to support the claim in a vain
attempt to show you that you CAN'T support it because it is false, and a
normal person would have promptly admitted to his error. But you're no
normal person.

This was obvious and I am glad you have made it unnecessary for me to go
round and round in circles to establish the point. Maybe that's why you
never asked me for supporting evidence.

Apart from the multitude of times I explicitly told you to support your
claim, that is.

Sandman:
And even if we hypothetically say that your claim WAS true and you
couldn't support it, an honest person would retract his claim
nonetheless. If you can't support it, don't make the claim. It's
as easy as that.

That's not how the real world works. If I know my claim is right I'm
not going to withdraw it, even if I can't come up with supporting
evidence at this instant.

This is exactly how the world works. If you make statements as facts, you
will be asked to support them. Failure to do so doesn't make them false,
but it means they're not facts. Facts need proof, full stop. Without proof
they are not facts, then they are assumptions, theories and guesses and
should always be presented as such.

Eric Stevens:
What you are saying is that the reality of any part of the
universe stands or falls with my ability to substantiate it.
Things can be true even if you cannot prove it at the time.

Sandman:
They can - but one should not state them as facts if one cannot
substantiate them. You may make claims about your opinions and
guesses and assumptions as much as you like and no one would hold
you to prove them. But when you continually make explicit claims
and state them as facts, whilst failing to support them with
anything, that makes you an idiot or a liar. Take your pick.

If only that was an accurate statement of the situation ...

It is. You made a statement as a fact, and failed to support it, and then
failed to retract or reword your statement.

Eric Stevens:
I thought that at the very least that was
worth at least a wry grin.

Sandman:
I thought it was you needlessly dragging up old
arguments in an effort to spite me - i.e. troll.

Eric Stevens:
You are unduly sensitive.

Sandman:
How so? You are a troll and a proven liar. Why would I give you
ANY leeway? I'd say I was *duly* sensitive towards your game
playing, trolling and lying and you utter inability to read and
comprehend written English.

Humph! I will pit my understanding of English against yours at any
time, but not with you as the judge.

Haha, of course not. You'd enlist the help of your illiterate troll buddy
Andreas Skitsnack. Perhaps Peter will join you to misrepresent the English
language as well?



--
Sandman[.net]