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-   -   Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller? (http://www.photobanter.com/showthread.php?t=32)

Phil Glaser January 25th 04 03:58 AM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 
Hi,

For the first time this evening I developed a B&W print in my
Uniroller drum on a motorized Uniroller base. I am using Ilford
Multigrade IV RC "Deluxe" with Ilford Multigrade developer. Having
never used a Uniroller before (and being unable to find directions for
B&W print processing with it on the web), I just followed the paper's
instructions for dish developing, using a dilution of 1:9 for one
minute.

This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black -- absolutely nothing came through, not
even a hint of that 2 second exposure. So I experimented with the
development time for the uniroller, and found that if I developed for
only 20 seconds with constant drum agitation, I got relatively more of
normal image (normal given that I was still over exposing the print by
two stops -- see below).

Now this is all very disorienting to me (I feel as dizzy as I myself
were spinning in that drum!). I mean, it seems like I eventually got
an ok print when developing it for 20 seconds (the final exposure time
for this particular print turned out to be two stops less than where I
started, half the time, and down from f/11 to f/16). But I'm working
with a questionable negative, and am unsure if what I don't like about
the final print is the negative, or whether something about the print
process is mudying the print. Given my set up, I don't have a way of
developing in trays and comparing the results with what I'm getting
from the Uniroller.

I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Is there a rule of thumb for print development time with a Uniroller?

Should I try working with the multigrad developer in a more diluted
form (ilford suggests 1:14 as an alternative to 1:9)?

And does anywone know where I can find information about using a
Uniroller for B&W processing on the web?

Thanks!

--Phil

Patrick Gainer January 25th 04 07:48 PM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 


Phil Glaser wrote:

Hi,

For the first time this evening I developed a B&W print in my
Uniroller drum on a motorized Uniroller base. I am using Ilford
Multigrade IV RC "Deluxe" with Ilford Multigrade developer. Having
never used a Uniroller before (and being unable to find directions for
B&W print processing with it on the web), I just followed the paper's
instructions for dish developing, using a dilution of 1:9 for one
minute.

This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black -- absolutely nothing came through, not
even a hint of that 2 second exposure. So I experimented with the
development time for the uniroller, and found that if I developed for
only 20 seconds with constant drum agitation, I got relatively more of
normal image (normal given that I was still over exposing the print by
two stops -- see below).

Now this is all very disorienting to me (I feel as dizzy as I myself
were spinning in that drum!). I mean, it seems like I eventually got
an ok print when developing it for 20 seconds (the final exposure time
for this particular print turned out to be two stops less than where I
started, half the time, and down from f/11 to f/16). But I'm working
with a questionable negative, and am unsure if what I don't like about
the final print is the negative, or whether something about the print
process is mudying the print. Given my set up, I don't have a way of
developing in trays and comparing the results with what I'm getting
from the Uniroller.

I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Is there a rule of thumb for print development time with a Uniroller?

Should I try working with the multigrad developer in a more diluted
form (ilford suggests 1:14 as an alternative to 1:9)?

And does anywone know where I can find information about using a
Uniroller for B&W processing on the web?

Thanks!

--Phil

I am never comfortable with reducing development time to compensate for
overexposure of paper. I use a tray, but I develop to completion,
meaning until no more image comes up. There is some leeway between that
point and the point at which fogging begins if exposure is correct.
Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time. More vigorous agitation will have
less effect.

I do not see how you could get pure black without a very long developing
time unless the exposure was too long. If that is the case, less
development will not give the best print.

d23 January 25th 04 09:31 PM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

"Patrick Gainer" wrote in message
...


Phil Glaser wrote:

Hi,

For the first time this evening I developed a B&W print in my
Uniroller drum on a motorized Uniroller base. I am using Ilford
Multigrade IV RC "Deluxe" with Ilford Multigrade developer. Having
never used a Uniroller before (and being unable to find directions for
B&W print processing with it on the web), I just followed the paper's
instructions for dish developing, using a dilution of 1:9 for one
minute.

This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black -- absolutely nothing came through, not
even a hint of that 2 second exposure. So I experimented with the
development time for the uniroller, and found that if I developed for
only 20 seconds with constant drum agitation, I got relatively more of
normal image (normal given that I was still over exposing the print by
two stops -- see below).

Now this is all very disorienting to me (I feel as dizzy as I myself
were spinning in that drum!). I mean, it seems like I eventually got
an ok print when developing it for 20 seconds (the final exposure time
for this particular print turned out to be two stops less than where I
started, half the time, and down from f/11 to f/16). But I'm working
with a questionable negative, and am unsure if what I don't like about
the final print is the negative, or whether something about the print
process is mudying the print. Given my set up, I don't have a way of
developing in trays and comparing the results with what I'm getting
from the Uniroller.

I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Is there a rule of thumb for print development time with a Uniroller?

Should I try working with the multigrad developer in a more diluted
form (ilford suggests 1:14 as an alternative to 1:9)?

And does anywone know where I can find information about using a
Uniroller for B&W processing on the web?

Thanks!

--Phil

I am never comfortable with reducing development time to compensate for
overexposure of paper. I use a tray, but I develop to completion,
meaning until no more image comes up. There is some leeway between that
point and the point at which fogging begins if exposure is correct.
Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time. More vigorous agitation will have
less effect.

I do not see how you could get pure black without a very long developing
time unless the exposure was too long. If that is the case, less
development will not give the best print.


Those are really out of the ordinary times. Could you, by chance, have an
extra pright bulb in your enlarger? Is your negative REALLY thin? Could
you have reversed the directions for diluting the developer so that you
mixed 9 parts of developer with one part water instead of the other way
around? Could your paper be fogged (are the white borders really white?)
Charles Portland Or



Michael Scarpitti January 25th 04 09:57 PM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 
(Phil Glaser) wrote in message . com...
Hi,

For the first time this evening I developed a B&W print in my
Uniroller drum on a motorized Uniroller base. I am using Ilford
Multigrade IV RC "Deluxe" with Ilford Multigrade developer. Having
never used a Uniroller before (and being unable to find directions for
B&W print processing with it on the web), I just followed the paper's
instructions for dish developing, using a dilution of 1:9 for one
minute.

This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black -- absolutely nothing came through, not
even a hint of that 2 second exposure. So I experimented with the
development time for the uniroller, and found that if I developed for
only 20 seconds with constant drum agitation, I got relatively more of
normal image (normal given that I was still over exposing the print by
two stops -- see below).

Now this is all very disorienting to me (I feel as dizzy as I myself
were spinning in that drum!). I mean, it seems like I eventually got
an ok print when developing it for 20 seconds (the final exposure time
for this particular print turned out to be two stops less than where I
started, half the time, and down from f/11 to f/16). But I'm working
with a questionable negative, and am unsure if what I don't like about
the final print is the negative, or whether something about the print
process is mudying the print. Given my set up, I don't have a way of
developing in trays and comparing the results with what I'm getting
from the Uniroller.

I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Is there a rule of thumb for print development time with a Uniroller?

Should I try working with the multigrad developer in a more diluted
form (ilford suggests 1:14 as an alternative to 1:9)?

And does anywone know where I can find information about using a
Uniroller for B&W processing on the web?

Thanks!

--Phil




My question is why bother using a drum for B&W paper? Trays are
actually easier and faster, as you do not have to load a tray!

Phil Glaser January 25th 04 11:05 PM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 
Patrick Gainer wrote in message


Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time.


The instructions for my paper, Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe, say
that with Multigrade developer diluted 1:9, 1 minute is the
recommended time. Are you suggesting that these instructions are wrong
(it would clearly not be the first time a photographic material
manufcaturer's instructions were wrong . . . )

--Phil

Claudio Bonavolta January 25th 04 11:31 PM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 
"Phil Glaser" wrote in message
om...
Patrick Gainer wrote in message


Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time.


The instructions for my paper, Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe, say
that with Multigrade developer diluted 1:9, 1 minute is the
recommended time. Are you suggesting that these instructions are wrong
(it would clearly not be the first time a photographic material
manufcaturer's instructions were wrong . . . )

--Phil


The Ilford Multigrade is a fast developer, so as mentioned by ilford, 1
minute should be enough.
I do prefer slower developers and developing times around 2' (and
development to completion, shortening developer time is a good way to obtain
greyish blacks).
I too suspect a strong overexposure or fogging.

Regards,
--
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch



Claudio Bonavolta January 25th 04 11:35 PM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 
"Michael Scarpitti" wrote in message
om...
My question is why bother using a drum for B&W paper? Trays are
actually easier and faster, as you do not have to load a tray!


I do it for large print sizes because I do have the drum to accept 50x60cm
but my larger trays are 30x40cm.
Another advantage is that you don't need lots of chemistry, a liter is more
than enough.

Regards,
--
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch



Dan Quinn January 25th 04 11:45 PM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 
(Phil Glaser) wrote

Given my set up, I don't have a way of developing in trays...


You might give the one-tray method a try. I use the one-tray throw-
away, but others use the one-tray and save way.
The basics are developer, water rinse, fix. I suggest small fluid
volumes. Eight ounces should be plenty for 8x10s. Developer concentration
should be sufficient for good results and no more. Fixer can be used
very dilute and tossed.
If fumes are still a problem, try sodium or the non-acidified ammonium
thiosulfates. Dan

Nicholas O. Lindan January 26th 04 12:13 AM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 
"Phil Glaser"

Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time.


The instructions for my paper, Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe, say
that with Multigrade developer diluted 1:9, 1 minute is the
recommended time.


("What's a mother to do?" -- US TV advert)

Paper developing times vary with the paper. Some 'Rapid' types do
their thing in 30 Sec., with the inclusion of developer in the
emulsion. RC's look ok to me at 1 minute, TTTT. I always give
fiber base 2 minutes, the blacks just look better (or so I convince
myself). Some photographer's prefer 4 minutes.

And that's all with Dektol/D-72.

Experiment, see if you can see a difference at one and two minutes.
If you can't, then don't waste the time.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.

Richard January 26th 04 12:44 AM

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 
(Phil Glaser) wrote in message . com...
This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black


There would appear to be something very wrong going on. A print
should
be a completion process. In other words there should be no difference
on the
print between a tray developed or rotary developed picture. Some
people say
a print should be developed to a time just short of chemical fogging.
This
is probably true but life is short and we dont have forever to wait.I
generally
develop about twice as long as suggested. I'm curious if your test
strip was
in an easle. If it was you should have had a nice clean white
border.No border would indicate fogging. I dont think anyone can say
how long an exposure should be but I can usually figure somewhere
around 10 sec. at F8 is a good starting
point for 8x10. 2 sec at F11 would seem way to short . The density of
the
negative obviously is going to have some effect but once your film
developing time is under control the variation should be minimal.I
realize I havent solved
your problem but I believe you would be looking in the wrong place by
chasing
rotary times.

Keep us posted Richard H.


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