The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

I left my heart in a goth club in San Francisco =)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7612545672346/

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

Vance wrote:
On Jan 14, 10:12 am, Al Bar wrote:
I left my heart in a goth club in San Francisco =)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7612545672346/

No offense, but I live in San Francisco and you really need to take
someone out who knows where to get the great image and how to get
them. Nice snaps of your outing though.

Vance

So what's your idea of a great image location in San Francisco?

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

"Vance" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 10:12 am, Al Bar wrote:
I left my heart in a goth club in San Francisco =)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7612545672346/

No offense, but I live in San Francisco and you really need to take
someone out who knows where to get the great image and how to get
them. Nice snaps of your outing though.



If you take me out to the "great image" and show me how to get it, from a
philosophical standpoint, why are they not your images. Compare with, if you
show me how to see and just take me to an area.

I am not picking on words and certainly don't mean to disparage your
comment. But I think that on too many workshops, the instructor/group
leader simply tells you where to plant your tripod and what exposure to use,
as opposed to letting you do your thing and then making suggestions. with
clear explanations.

Last weekend I went to the beach with a friend, who is an excellent photo
artist. We simultaneously saw the same shot. His was far superior to mine,
simply because he shot from a slightly different angle. In my excitement, I
never realized the alignment of a sunbeam reflection with some seaweed,
until it was too late. Had he explained the alignment before he shot, the
picture would have really been his, not mine. Yet it was a good learning
experience for me.

--
Peter

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

Peter wrote:
"Vance" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 10:12 am, Al Bar wrote:
I left my heart in a goth club in San Francisco =)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7612545672346/

No offense, but I live in San Francisco and you really need to take
someone out who knows where to get the great image and how to get
them. Nice snaps of your outing though.



If you take me out to the "great image" and show me how to get it, from
a philosophical standpoint, why are they not your images. Compare with,
if you show me how to see and just take me to an area.

I am not picking on words and certainly don't mean to disparage your
comment. But I think that on too many workshops, the instructor/group
leader simply tells you where to plant your tripod and what exposure to
use, as opposed to letting you do your thing and then making
suggestions. with clear explanations.

Last weekend I went to the beach with a friend, who is an excellent
photo artist. We simultaneously saw the same shot. His was far superior
to mine, simply because he shot from a slightly different angle. In my
excitement, I never realized the alignment of a sunbeam reflection with
some seaweed, until it was too late. Had he explained the alignment
before he shot, the picture would have really been his, not mine. Yet it
was a good learning experience for me.


In Vance's defense, I must say that a simple Google search yields some rather interesting pictures:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Vance.Le...UZPU#slideshow

However, I think assessing my understanding of San Francisco based on a single set is a bit rash ... and not to toot my own
horn, but there are plenty of shots in my other sets that at least keep up the pace with the stuff in that slide show:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7604525246694/

.... anyway I'm with you Peter, in that slight variations in a situation can completely make or break a photo =)

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

"Al Bar" wrote in message
...
Peter wrote:
"Vance" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 10:12 am, Al Bar wrote:
I left my heart in a goth club in San Francisco =)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7612545672346/

No offense, but I live in San Francisco and you really need to take
someone out who knows where to get the great image and how to get
them. Nice snaps of your outing though.



If you take me out to the "great image" and show me how to get it, from a
philosophical standpoint, why are they not your images. Compare with, if
you show me how to see and just take me to an area.

I am not picking on words and certainly don't mean to disparage your
comment. But I think that on too many workshops, the instructor/group
leader simply tells you where to plant your tripod and what exposure to
use, as opposed to letting you do your thing and then making suggestions.
with clear explanations.

Last weekend I went to the beach with a friend, who is an excellent photo
artist. We simultaneously saw the same shot. His was far superior to
mine, simply because he shot from a slightly different angle. In my
excitement, I never realized the alignment of a sunbeam reflection with
some seaweed, until it was too late. Had he explained the alignment
before he shot, the picture would have really been his, not mine. Yet it
was a good learning experience for me.


In Vance's defense, I must say that a simple Google search yields some
rather interesting pictures:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Vance.Le...UZPU#slideshow


I hope my statement was not taken to be any attack upon Vance. It certainly
was not intended to be one. If anyone does think it was I apologize.

However, I think assessing my understanding of San Francisco based on a
single set is a bit rash ... and not to toot my own horn, but there are
plenty of shots in my other sets that at least keep up the pace with the
stuff in that slide show:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7604525246694/

... anyway I'm with you Peter, in that slight variations in a situation
can completely make or break a photo =)

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

Al Bar wrote:
Peter wrote:
"Vance" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 10:12 am, Al Bar wrote:
I left my heart in a goth club in San Francisco =)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7612545672346/

No offense, but I live in San Francisco and you really need to take
someone out who knows where to get the great image and how to get
them. Nice snaps of your outing though.



If you take me out to the "great image" and show me how to get it,
from a philosophical standpoint, why are they not your images. Compare
with, if you show me how to see and just take me to an area.

I am not picking on words and certainly don't mean to disparage your
comment. But I think that on too many workshops, the instructor/group
leader simply tells you where to plant your tripod and what exposure
to use, as opposed to letting you do your thing and then making
suggestions. with clear explanations.

Last weekend I went to the beach with a friend, who is an excellent
photo artist. We simultaneously saw the same shot. His was far
superior to mine, simply because he shot from a slightly different
angle. In my excitement, I never realized the alignment of a sunbeam
reflection with some seaweed, until it was too late. Had he explained
the alignment before he shot, the picture would have really been his,
not mine. Yet it was a good learning experience for me.

What you have described is a prime example of education in operation.
Next time you take a photograph that experience will impact to some
extent on how you see the next subject.

Your interpretation of the image as being your friend's if you took his
advice is not so; he is educating your sense of composition. If it were
the case, then few of us would 'own' our images as we would have to
attribute them to all of our educators and mentors, right back to
primary school.

Colin D.

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

"Colin.D" wrote in message
...


Peter wrote:

Last weekend I went to the beach with a friend, who is an excellent
photo artist. We simultaneously saw the same shot. His was far superior
to mine, simply because he shot from a slightly different angle. In my
excitement, I never realized the alignment of a sunbeam reflection with
some seaweed, until it was too late. Had he explained the alignment
before he shot, the picture would have really been his, not mine. Yet it
was a good learning experience for me.

What you have described is a prime example of education in operation. Next
time you take a photograph that experience will impact to some extent on
how you see the next subject.

Your interpretation of the image as being your friend's if you took his
advice is not so; he is educating your sense of composition. If it were
the case, then few of us would 'own' our images as we would have to
attribute them to all of our educators and mentors, right back to primary
school.


I do not really disagree. I think there is a very fine line between
inspirational education and outright copying.

If my instructor set up the shot and all do is press the shutter, morally it
is not my shot.

Compare with, I visualize a shot and my instructor shows me how to
technically accomplish my vision.

That is just my opinion. Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive, but if I am
presenting an image as an example of my creativity, it ought to be my
creativity, not someone else's. The way I see it, that is the difference
between an artist and a hack.

--
Peter

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

Peter wrote:
"Colin.D" wrote in message
...


Peter wrote:

Last weekend I went to the beach with a friend, who is an excellent
photo artist. We simultaneously saw the same shot. His was far
superior to mine, simply because he shot from a slightly different
angle. In my excitement, I never realized the alignment of a sunbeam
reflection with some seaweed, until it was too late. Had he
explained the alignment before he shot, the picture would have
really been his, not mine. Yet it was a good learning experience for
me.

What you have described is a prime example of education in operation.
Next time you take a photograph that experience will impact to some
extent on how you see the next subject.

Your interpretation of the image as being your friend's if you took
his advice is not so; he is educating your sense of composition. If
it were the case, then few of us would 'own' our images as we would
have to attribute them to all of our educators and mentors, right back
to primary school.


I do not really disagree. I think there is a very fine line between
inspirational education and outright copying.

If my instructor set up the shot and all do is press the shutter,
morally it is not my shot.

Compare with, I visualize a shot and my instructor shows me how to
technically accomplish my vision.

That is just my opinion. Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive, but if I am
presenting an image as an example of my creativity, it ought to be my
creativity, not someone else's. The way I see it, that is the difference
between an artist and a hack.

Even creative people had to learn somewhere; only a total genius could
accomplish a work without any prior input from some kind of teacher, or
at least a study of others' work. Some have an 'artistic mind', others
like me have a technical bent and are short on artistry, a problem I
have wrestled with all my photographic life.

Colin D.

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

Peter wrote:
"Vance" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 10:12 am, Al Bar wrote:
I left my heart in a goth club in San Francisco =)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7612545672346/

No offense, but I live in San Francisco and you really need to take
someone out who knows where to get the great image and how to get
them. Nice snaps of your outing though.



If you take me out to the "great image" and show me how to get it, from
a philosophical standpoint, why are they not your images. Compare with,
if you show me how to see and just take me to an area.

I am not picking on words and certainly don't mean to disparage your
comment. But I think that on too many workshops, the instructor/group
leader simply tells you where to plant your tripod and what exposure to
use, as opposed to letting you do your thing and then making
suggestions. with clear explanations.

Last weekend I went to the beach with a friend, who is an excellent
photo artist. We simultaneously saw the same shot. His was far superior
to mine, simply because he shot from a slightly different angle. In my
excitement, I never realized the alignment of a sunbeam reflection with
some seaweed, until it was too late. Had he explained the alignment
before he shot, the picture would have really been his, not mine. Yet it
was a good learning experience for me.

"Hey you stole my shot!" is a common, not quite joking refrain on photo
outings with friends (this goes both ways). I was in Chaco Canyon this
fall & stole this shot from a LF photographer who was set up waiting for
the light to change or something. I asked, she laughed & said I was only
about the 12th person to do so. Of course her camera was in the way of
taking the exact shot she set up g

The stolen photo:
http://edgehill.net/Southwest/9-12-0...co-cyn/pg8pc46
(I still need to finish uploading, organizing & annotating all these
zillions of shots)


--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam

The lovely ladies of Death Guild
 

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
...
Peter wrote:
"Vance" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 10:12 am, Al Bar wrote:
I left my heart in a goth club in San Francisco =)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mesolim...7612545672346/

No offense, but I live in San Francisco and you really need to take
someone out who knows where to get the great image and how to get
them. Nice snaps of your outing though.



If you take me out to the "great image" and show me how to get it, from a
philosophical standpoint, why are they not your images. Compare with, if
you show me how to see and just take me to an area.

I am not picking on words and certainly don't mean to disparage your
comment. But I think that on too many workshops, the instructor/group
leader simply tells you where to plant your tripod and what exposure to
use, as opposed to letting you do your thing and then making suggestions.
with clear explanations.

Last weekend I went to the beach with a friend, who is an excellent photo
artist. We simultaneously saw the same shot. His was far superior to
mine, simply because he shot from a slightly different angle. In my
excitement, I never realized the alignment of a sunbeam reflection with
some seaweed, until it was too late. Had he explained the alignment
before he shot, the picture would have really been his, not mine. Yet it
was a good learning experience for me.

"Hey you stole my shot!" is a common, not quite joking refrain on photo
outings with friends (this goes both ways). I was in Chaco Canyon this
fall & stole this shot from a LF photographer who was set up waiting for
the light to change or something. I asked, she laughed & said I was only
about the 12th person to do so. Of course her camera was in the way of
taking the exact shot she set up g

The stolen photo:
http://edgehill.net/Southwest/9-12-0...co-cyn/pg8pc46
(I still need to finish uploading, organizing & annotating all these
zillions of shots)



We used to have an A-hole in our club who would make that complaint if
anyone came near him while he was shooting.

The president of our club subtly rebuked him.

We had several competitions based upon a field trip in which all going went
to the same spot. The purpose was to demonstrate how many different shots
could be taken from the same spot.

--
Peter