PhotoBanter.com

PhotoBanter.com (http://www.photobanter.com/index.php)
-   35mm Photo Equipment (http://www.photobanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Ghosting Problem (http://www.photobanter.com/showthread.php?t=8425)

Justin F. Knotzke August 4th 04 04:50 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
Hi,

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...7_2004/image13

This ghosting and complete white out appears to be happening because the
D-MAX of my film is being reached. Note that the arms of the rider in orange
appear where the tree nicely appears in the background.

Just so everyone knows, this isn't the effect I was going for. ;-) I was
hoping to get some rear curtain sync blur going but not having my subject's
face rubbed out..

If my assumption is correct, my thinking is that I need to decrease the
exposure by a stop or maybe more and then increase the flash output by a stop
or more.

Assuming this is all correct, is there a way I can figure out how many
stops I need to decreate exposure and increase flash exposure by?

I was thinking of maybe metering the sky, then metering the subject and
using the difference as my compensation factor..

Does that sound right?

Thanks

J



--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Alan Browne August 4th 04 06:10 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

Hi,

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...7_2004/image13


Cool shot.


This ghosting and complete white out appears to be happening because the
D-MAX of my film is being reached. Note that the arms of the rider in orange
appear where the tree nicely appears in the background.


They both have different color values (green/orange)... different
layers of color were used. Where the "white patch" shines
through is the same as the white sky in the BG. (all three color
layers react to white). (This is why when making multiple
exposure motion studies a black (or other dark) background is
usually used).

Just so everyone knows, this isn't the effect I was going for. ;-) I was
hoping to get some rear curtain sync blur going but not having my subject's
face rubbed out..


Well you do have some. Note that for a face to be well exposed
in a moving shot, the background must be dark. The lighter the
background, the less there is "left over" to record the flash
frozen subject.


If my assumption is correct, my thinking is that I need to decrease the
exposure by a stop or maybe more and then increase the flash output by a stop
or more.


Maybe. Notice how the redbrick buildings are already a bit
underexposed? Reducing the exposure will turn the buildings and
the trees to silhouettes. Flash? You can bring it down a stop
with the effect of the background bikers looking only like blurs
(no stop motion effect as is already evident in shot 13), and the
foreground bikers will maintain the strobe freeze). If you
increase the flash, you will get really high values and
reflections (note the skin highlights of the nearest biker on
13), but the background bikers will be more 'frozen'. Your choice.

The real issue here is the background needing to be dark enough
to not saturate the film where you want the bikers to be frozen.
If you reduce the exposure, then "white" sky will become greyer
and the trees/buildings will tend to silhouette. Solution:
capture the bikers where the BG is naturally dark.

Assuming this is all correct, is there a way I can figure out how many
stops I need to decreate exposure and increase flash exposure by?


As you're looking to have a "normal" looking BG, you need to
expose for it ... the flash will not help with it at all.

Since flash does not care about shutter time (as long as you make
sync speed), then think of it all in terms of where you want your
speed for the blur effect (about 1/30 to 1/15 in this case?)
and then set the aperture for that speed to expose the background
properly.


I was thinking of maybe metering the sky, then metering the subject and
using the difference as my compensation factor..


Slide film? If you meter a white sky, then open up 1.7 to 2
stops (of aperture as your speed is predtermined for blur in this
case), if you meter a blue sky, then 1 stop will do. That will
give you the non-flash portion of the image.

The flash portion of the image is dictated by the TTL flash
system. Assuming you're using the F5, this should be minimally
complex and there should be little reason to flash compensate
with these subjects... in your shots the jersey reds are nicely
saturated.)

I like your series of cycling shots, BTW!

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--


Alan Browne August 4th 04 06:10 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

Hi,

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...7_2004/image13


Cool shot.


This ghosting and complete white out appears to be happening because the
D-MAX of my film is being reached. Note that the arms of the rider in orange
appear where the tree nicely appears in the background.


They both have different color values (green/orange)... different
layers of color were used. Where the "white patch" shines
through is the same as the white sky in the BG. (all three color
layers react to white). (This is why when making multiple
exposure motion studies a black (or other dark) background is
usually used).

Just so everyone knows, this isn't the effect I was going for. ;-) I was
hoping to get some rear curtain sync blur going but not having my subject's
face rubbed out..


Well you do have some. Note that for a face to be well exposed
in a moving shot, the background must be dark. The lighter the
background, the less there is "left over" to record the flash
frozen subject.


If my assumption is correct, my thinking is that I need to decrease the
exposure by a stop or maybe more and then increase the flash output by a stop
or more.


Maybe. Notice how the redbrick buildings are already a bit
underexposed? Reducing the exposure will turn the buildings and
the trees to silhouettes. Flash? You can bring it down a stop
with the effect of the background bikers looking only like blurs
(no stop motion effect as is already evident in shot 13), and the
foreground bikers will maintain the strobe freeze). If you
increase the flash, you will get really high values and
reflections (note the skin highlights of the nearest biker on
13), but the background bikers will be more 'frozen'. Your choice.

The real issue here is the background needing to be dark enough
to not saturate the film where you want the bikers to be frozen.
If you reduce the exposure, then "white" sky will become greyer
and the trees/buildings will tend to silhouette. Solution:
capture the bikers where the BG is naturally dark.

Assuming this is all correct, is there a way I can figure out how many
stops I need to decreate exposure and increase flash exposure by?


As you're looking to have a "normal" looking BG, you need to
expose for it ... the flash will not help with it at all.

Since flash does not care about shutter time (as long as you make
sync speed), then think of it all in terms of where you want your
speed for the blur effect (about 1/30 to 1/15 in this case?)
and then set the aperture for that speed to expose the background
properly.


I was thinking of maybe metering the sky, then metering the subject and
using the difference as my compensation factor..


Slide film? If you meter a white sky, then open up 1.7 to 2
stops (of aperture as your speed is predtermined for blur in this
case), if you meter a blue sky, then 1 stop will do. That will
give you the non-flash portion of the image.

The flash portion of the image is dictated by the TTL flash
system. Assuming you're using the F5, this should be minimally
complex and there should be little reason to flash compensate
with these subjects... in your shots the jersey reds are nicely
saturated.)

I like your series of cycling shots, BTW!

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--


McLeod August 4th 04 07:31 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
On 4 Aug 2004 15:50:46 GMT, "Justin F. Knotzke"
wrote:

Hi,

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...7_2004/image13

This ghosting and complete white out appears to be happening because the
D-MAX of my film is being reached. Note that the arms of the rider in orange
appear where the tree nicely appears in the background.

Just so everyone knows, this isn't the effect I was going for. ;-) I was
hoping to get some rear curtain sync blur going but not having my subject's
face rubbed out..

If my assumption is correct, my thinking is that I need to decrease the
exposure by a stop or maybe more and then increase the flash output by a stop
or more.

Assuming this is all correct, is there a way I can figure out how many
stops I need to decreate exposure and increase flash exposure by?

I was thinking of maybe metering the sky, then metering the subject and
using the difference as my compensation factor..

Does that sound right?

Thanks

J


The problem is the fact that you have, in effect, two exposures. I
don't know whether you're shooting digital or slide or negative but
with positives the area of the sky is so overexposed there is no data
left anyway. Your flash exposure seems good and your ambient
exposure, at least for the street and trees is already underexposed.
Can you change your camera height? If you shot slightly down you
would have perfect results. Or change your point of aim so there is a
darker background behind your subjects. The lighter your background
is the more pronounced the ghosting effect will be.

McLeod August 4th 04 07:31 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
On 4 Aug 2004 15:50:46 GMT, "Justin F. Knotzke"
wrote:

Hi,

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...7_2004/image13

This ghosting and complete white out appears to be happening because the
D-MAX of my film is being reached. Note that the arms of the rider in orange
appear where the tree nicely appears in the background.

Just so everyone knows, this isn't the effect I was going for. ;-) I was
hoping to get some rear curtain sync blur going but not having my subject's
face rubbed out..

If my assumption is correct, my thinking is that I need to decrease the
exposure by a stop or maybe more and then increase the flash output by a stop
or more.

Assuming this is all correct, is there a way I can figure out how many
stops I need to decreate exposure and increase flash exposure by?

I was thinking of maybe metering the sky, then metering the subject and
using the difference as my compensation factor..

Does that sound right?

Thanks

J


The problem is the fact that you have, in effect, two exposures. I
don't know whether you're shooting digital or slide or negative but
with positives the area of the sky is so overexposed there is no data
left anyway. Your flash exposure seems good and your ambient
exposure, at least for the street and trees is already underexposed.
Can you change your camera height? If you shot slightly down you
would have perfect results. Or change your point of aim so there is a
darker background behind your subjects. The lighter your background
is the more pronounced the ghosting effect will be.

Annika1980 August 5th 04 01:42 AM

Ghosting Problem
 
This ghosting and complete white out appears to be happening because the
D-MAX of my film is being reached.


That effect happens when you choose a slow shutter speed for the background
exposure and then attempt to freeze the foreground action with flash.
I've got a few ghost hummingbird shots that way as well.






Annika1980 August 5th 04 01:42 AM

Ghosting Problem
 
This ghosting and complete white out appears to be happening because the
D-MAX of my film is being reached.


That effect happens when you choose a slow shutter speed for the background
exposure and then attempt to freeze the foreground action with flash.
I've got a few ghost hummingbird shots that way as well.






Justin F. Knotzke August 5th 04 03:42 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= Alan Browne /:

The real issue here is the background needing to be dark enough
to not saturate the film where you want the bikers to be frozen.
If you reduce the exposure, then "white" sky will become greyer
and the trees/buildings will tend to silhouette. Solution:
capture the bikers where the BG is naturally dark.


Hmm I suppose. Easier said then done of course. ;-) They are flyin by at
45km/h.. But I see your point. I'll try to setup pointing a little more to the
right. There's a block of trees there..

Slide film? If you meter a white sky, then open up 1.7 to 2
stops (of aperture as your speed is predtermined for blur in this
case), if you meter a blue sky, then 1 stop will do. That will
give you the non-flash portion of the image.

The flash portion of the image is dictated by the TTL flash
system. Assuming you're using the F5, this should be minimally
complex and there should be little reason to flash compensate
with these subjects... in your shots the jersey reds are nicely
saturated.)


Ok. I think I follow you. I had to read your post a few times to get it.
But the idea is to expose for the background, and let the flash do the rest. I
use the flash to get out facial expressions. Helmets and sunglasses are great
for the riders, but crappy for the photogs. I can get eyeballs and suffer
faces much better with the flash then without.

At first I was dead against using a flash for anything unless required. Now
I am starting to really see the advantage. It gives me better contrast, makes
my subjects pop out.

In late August when the final races come up, the race ends in almost
darkness. I was dreaming of setting up 3 or 4 alien bees with pocket wizards on
one corner and firing away. I'd have two at the front pointing up and two at
the back pointing down.

I'd probably cause a massive crash though. ;-)

Oh and yes, I am using the F5 and I am shooting Sensia or HP5+ (depending
on how much money I have left in the account that week grin).

I've been shooting this race now for about 4 weeks and I am learning tons.
A lot of guys show up with monster glass (300 F2.8) and stand on the same
corner and wait.. I can't see how that's going to get you a great image. Even
with glass that long, you still have the problem of riders getting in the way
or other riders. You are mostly stuck with shooting the guys in the lead. I'm
using 80mm and getting in so close that I think some of the riders are trying
to knock the camera out of my hands.

I still want an 80-200 F2.8 though. ;-) B&H has one for $475USD used..
Anyone wanna buy a... oh crap, I have nothing left to sell.

I like your series of cycling shots, BTW!


Thanks Alan. Much appreciated.

J

--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Justin F. Knotzke August 5th 04 03:42 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= Alan Browne /:

The real issue here is the background needing to be dark enough
to not saturate the film where you want the bikers to be frozen.
If you reduce the exposure, then "white" sky will become greyer
and the trees/buildings will tend to silhouette. Solution:
capture the bikers where the BG is naturally dark.


Hmm I suppose. Easier said then done of course. ;-) They are flyin by at
45km/h.. But I see your point. I'll try to setup pointing a little more to the
right. There's a block of trees there..

Slide film? If you meter a white sky, then open up 1.7 to 2
stops (of aperture as your speed is predtermined for blur in this
case), if you meter a blue sky, then 1 stop will do. That will
give you the non-flash portion of the image.

The flash portion of the image is dictated by the TTL flash
system. Assuming you're using the F5, this should be minimally
complex and there should be little reason to flash compensate
with these subjects... in your shots the jersey reds are nicely
saturated.)


Ok. I think I follow you. I had to read your post a few times to get it.
But the idea is to expose for the background, and let the flash do the rest. I
use the flash to get out facial expressions. Helmets and sunglasses are great
for the riders, but crappy for the photogs. I can get eyeballs and suffer
faces much better with the flash then without.

At first I was dead against using a flash for anything unless required. Now
I am starting to really see the advantage. It gives me better contrast, makes
my subjects pop out.

In late August when the final races come up, the race ends in almost
darkness. I was dreaming of setting up 3 or 4 alien bees with pocket wizards on
one corner and firing away. I'd have two at the front pointing up and two at
the back pointing down.

I'd probably cause a massive crash though. ;-)

Oh and yes, I am using the F5 and I am shooting Sensia or HP5+ (depending
on how much money I have left in the account that week grin).

I've been shooting this race now for about 4 weeks and I am learning tons.
A lot of guys show up with monster glass (300 F2.8) and stand on the same
corner and wait.. I can't see how that's going to get you a great image. Even
with glass that long, you still have the problem of riders getting in the way
or other riders. You are mostly stuck with shooting the guys in the lead. I'm
using 80mm and getting in so close that I think some of the riders are trying
to knock the camera out of my hands.

I still want an 80-200 F2.8 though. ;-) B&H has one for $475USD used..
Anyone wanna buy a... oh crap, I have nothing left to sell.

I like your series of cycling shots, BTW!


Thanks Alan. Much appreciated.

J

--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Justin F. Knotzke August 5th 04 03:53 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= McLeod /:

The problem is the fact that you have, in effect, two exposures. I
don't know whether you're shooting digital or slide or negative but
with positives the area of the sky is so overexposed there is no data
left anyway. Your flash exposure seems good and your ambient
exposure, at least for the street and trees is already underexposed.
Can you change your camera height? If you shot slightly down you
would have perfect results. Or change your point of aim so there is a
darker background behind your subjects. The lighter your background
is the more pronounced the ghosting effect will be.


Ya. I figured as much. Thanks for the reply. I have shot some pointing
downwards:

Not great shots, but as you can see, no major ghosting..

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...20_2004/image7
http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...27_2004/image1

Same corner as where the ghosting image happened but pointing more where
the trees are.

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...27_2004/image7

Anyhow, this goes to prove your point that finding a dark background makes
all the difference.

Thanks for the reply,

J


--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Justin F. Knotzke August 5th 04 03:53 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= McLeod /:

The problem is the fact that you have, in effect, two exposures. I
don't know whether you're shooting digital or slide or negative but
with positives the area of the sky is so overexposed there is no data
left anyway. Your flash exposure seems good and your ambient
exposure, at least for the street and trees is already underexposed.
Can you change your camera height? If you shot slightly down you
would have perfect results. Or change your point of aim so there is a
darker background behind your subjects. The lighter your background
is the more pronounced the ghosting effect will be.


Ya. I figured as much. Thanks for the reply. I have shot some pointing
downwards:

Not great shots, but as you can see, no major ghosting..

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...20_2004/image7
http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...27_2004/image1

Same corner as where the ghosting image happened but pointing more where
the trees are.

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...27_2004/image7

Anyhow, this goes to prove your point that finding a dark background makes
all the difference.

Thanks for the reply,

J


--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Bill Tuthill August 5th 04 07:13 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...20_2004/image7
http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...27_2004/image1

Same corner as where the ghosting image happened but pointing more where
the trees are.

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...27_2004/image7

Anyhow, this goes to prove your point that finding a dark background makes
all the difference.


Is that the effect you were trying to achieve?

Another thing you could try is HSS (high speed sync) or FP as it is
sometimes called. Using a somewhat higher shutter speed, follow the
racers and get a blurred background to convey the impression of speed.


Justin F. Knotzke August 5th 04 07:30 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= Bill Tuthill /:

Is that the effect you were trying to achieve?


Sadly, no. Thus the reason I made the post with the ghosting question.

Another thing you could try is HSS (high speed sync) or FP as it is
sometimes called. Using a somewhat higher shutter speed, follow the
racers and get a blurred background to convey the impression of speed.


Right:

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/Lachin...brando4?full=1

That's without a flash. I am trying to get the same blur/pan effect but
with fill flash to get their faces lit. In the above shot, I was very lucky to
get the glow of light. I don't get that very often and even less so that it's
getting darker.. So I like to use a bit of flash to fill in the shadows and
give me some contrast.

I am trying to mimic:

http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin.../image9?full=1

That's about the effect I am going for. As you can see by that shot, the
background are cars and not sky. I didn't realize that my problem in the
original shot:
http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...image13?full=1 was the sky
until Alan and others so kindly pointed it out to me. I hopefully won't make
the same mistake again..

Same corner: http://www.shampoo.ca/gallery/lachin...7_2004/image12
but with the rider just in front of the trees..

Anyhow, thanks to all who have replied.

If I can, I will try and get a darker background. If not, I will expose
for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase flash by 1.5
stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and backgrounds but my subjects
should come out better and not look like Casper's cousins.

J


--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Alan Browne August 6th 04 01:43 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase flash by 1.5
stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and backgrounds but my subjects
should come out better and not look like Casper's cousins.


If you increase the flash you will whiten them out and kill any
color they are wearing... esp. on slide film.


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--


Alan Browne August 6th 04 01:43 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase flash by 1.5
stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and backgrounds but my subjects
should come out better and not look like Casper's cousins.


If you increase the flash you will whiten them out and kill any
color they are wearing... esp. on slide film.


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--


Justin F. Knotzke August 6th 04 02:54 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= Alan Browne /:
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase flash by 1.5
stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and backgrounds but my subjects
should come out better and not look like Casper's cousins.


If you increase the flash you will whiten them out and kill any
color they are wearing... esp. on slide film.


But wouldn't the descreased exposure compensate for that?

J



--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Justin F. Knotzke August 6th 04 02:54 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= Alan Browne /:
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase flash by 1.5
stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and backgrounds but my subjects
should come out better and not look like Casper's cousins.


If you increase the flash you will whiten them out and kill any
color they are wearing... esp. on slide film.


But wouldn't the descreased exposure compensate for that?

J



--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Justin F. Knotzke August 6th 04 02:54 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= Alan Browne /:
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase flash by 1.5
stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and backgrounds but my subjects
should come out better and not look like Casper's cousins.


If you increase the flash you will whiten them out and kill any
color they are wearing... esp. on slide film.


But wouldn't the descreased exposure compensate for that?

J



--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Alan Browne August 6th 04 03:34 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

quote who= Alan Browne /:

Justin F. Knotzke wrote:


for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase flash by 1.5
stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and backgrounds but my subjects
should come out better and not look like Casper's cousins.


If you increase the flash you will whiten them out and kill any
color they are wearing... esp. on slide film.



But wouldn't the descreased exposure compensate for that?



As McLeod pointed out, you're really making a double exposure.
One for metered natural light, one for the flash. By setting the
aperture smaller you're choking the natural light, but the flash
system will _automatically_ increase the duration of the flash
for the amount of light coming back from the subject through the
smaller aperture.... (eg: it will stay on longer) and you'll over
expose the subject. (Again: you're #13 subject is well exposed).

You have to think of both exposures seperately and then find
where the aperture works for both exposures.


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--


Alan Browne August 6th 04 03:34 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

quote who= Alan Browne /:

Justin F. Knotzke wrote:


for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase flash by 1.5
stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and backgrounds but my subjects
should come out better and not look like Casper's cousins.


If you increase the flash you will whiten them out and kill any
color they are wearing... esp. on slide film.



But wouldn't the descreased exposure compensate for that?



As McLeod pointed out, you're really making a double exposure.
One for metered natural light, one for the flash. By setting the
aperture smaller you're choking the natural light, but the flash
system will _automatically_ increase the duration of the flash
for the amount of light coming back from the subject through the
smaller aperture.... (eg: it will stay on longer) and you'll over
expose the subject. (Again: you're #13 subject is well exposed).

You have to think of both exposures seperately and then find
where the aperture works for both exposures.


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--


Justin F. Knotzke August 6th 04 05:42 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= Alan Browne /:

You have to think of both exposures seperately and then find
where the aperture works for both exposures.


Ok, I get it. Thanks Alan.

J



--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Al Denelsbeck August 6th 04 07:12 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
"Justin F. Knotzke" wrote in
:

quote who= Alan Browne /:
Justin F. Knotzke wrote:

for the background, close the aperture by 1-2 stops and increase
flash by 1.5 stops. I'll probably darken out some buildings and
backgrounds but my subjects should come out better and not look like
Casper's cousins.


If you increase the flash you will whiten them out and kill any
color they are wearing... esp. on slide film.


But wouldn't the descreased exposure compensate for that?



Depends on how exactly you're determining exposure.

If you're metering from ambient conditions with the intent of
dragging the shutter for those nice blurs, and the flash is TTL, then no
flash compensation should be needed. You still have to be careful and meter
the sky, to make sure it isn't overexposing at your camera settings, which
will blow out the film, and the flash will only pile on top of this.

If you're determining flash exposure by hand, remember that exposure
is cumulative. In other words, the flash by itself might be fine, and the
long exposure by itself might be fine, but the two together may equal
blowouts. So anything light colored that gets exposed by the flash, in an
area of the film already exposed by the sky, will go absolutely nuclear.

Once you pass the limits of the film, nothing you can do will bring
it back. You can't increase the flash to make the overexposure "even"
across the board - the film is already saturated. All you'll do is saturate
those areas that hadn't been. You have to drop overall exposure down to the
film limits, and this means decreasing both ambient exposure and flash.

It's much the same as a double-exposure. In order not to overexpose
the film, you decrease each exposure by a stop or so, because they'll pile
on top of one another. You're doing the same thing here - consider the
ambient blur exposure, and the flash going off, two separate exposures.
It's up to you to judge the conditions to know how they'll combine -
obviously the sky is a problem. So is anything white against white in the
two (good luck judging where the white helmet of a cyclist is gonna fall as
they race past you! ;-)). Very tricky, and I agree with the others that a
dark background is going to be your best bet.

Good luck with it! Get it right and the pics should be excellent!


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net

Justin F. Knotzke August 10th 04 04:29 PM

Ghosting Problem
 
quote who= Al Denelsbeck /:

Good luck with it! Get it right and the pics should be excellent!


Sorry for the late reply. Thanks so much for your reply. It really helps.
The final race of the series is tonight (but they are calling for rain). I am
going to give it a try again. I will meter the sky and then go from there..

Thanks again,

J


--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca

Justin F. Knotzke August 10th 04 04:29 PM

quote who= Al Denelsbeck /:

Good luck with it! Get it right and the pics should be excellent!


Sorry for the late reply. Thanks so much for your reply. It really helps.
The final race of the series is tonight (but they are calling for rain). I am
going to give it a try again. I will meter the sky and then go from there..

Thanks again,

J


--
Justin F. Knotzke

http://www.shampoo.ca


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
PhotoBanter.com