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nospam November 9th 17 01:49 PM

Ripe Apples
 
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

It might be
an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
the use of any tools whatsoever.


it need not be ugly to do that.


It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly.


he's right.

I don't think it was ugly but
it was what it was and it was extremely utilitarian.


in other words, boring.

I could swap
drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
in the Dell which followed it.


if all you do is open it and swap drives, then that's the computer to
get.

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open up
their computer and swap parts all day long.

Alan Browne November 9th 17 02:44 PM

Ripe Apples
 
On 2017-11-09 07:49, nospam wrote:


meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

nospam November 9th 17 03:03 PM

Ripe Apples
 
In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.

while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.

PeterN[_7_] November 9th 17 07:08 PM

Ripe Apples
 
On 11/9/2017 9:03 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are
available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is
trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory. I have someone else
do it, because of a physical limitation. When I tell a repair guy what I
want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the
price is very reasonable.


while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.






On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.


it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.

Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.


--
PeterN

nospam November 9th 17 07:58 PM

Ripe Apples
 
In article , PeterN
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.

The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are
available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is
trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory.


trivial for you and me.

trivial for the average consumer, not so much.

I have someone else
do it, because of a physical limitation.


so it doesn't actually matter. you're making my point.

When I tell a repair guy what I
want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the
price is very reasonable.


not all repairs are that quick and not all places will let you watch.

try that at an auto repair shop.

while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.


^^^^^


On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.


pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

hp has a few interesting products, such as the spectre and yoga, but
otherwise, it's the same old boring stuff.

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.

Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.


more insults and there's nothing vague about it.

Eric Stevens November 9th 17 09:50 PM

Ripe Apples
 
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:49:00 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

It might be
an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
the use of any tools whatsoever.

it need not be ugly to do that.


It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly.


he's right.


It didn't matter. It was out of sight under my desk.

I don't think it was ugly but
it was what it was and it was extremely utilitarian.


in other words, boring.


But practical.

I could swap
drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
in the Dell which followed it.


if all you do is open it and swap drives, then that's the computer to
get.


Two thumbscrews to get the side panel off. Unplug the drive. Flip the
lock open on the drive mount and slide out the drive. Slide in the new
drive, flip the lock closed, plug in the drive, refit the cover and
screws. An easy 10 minutes from power off to power on.

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open up
their computer and swap parts all day long.


I used to do that when I got bored. To add to the excitement I never
knew which drive did what and the behaviour on startup was quite a fun
lottery.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Alan Browne November 9th 17 09:53 PM

Ripe Apples
 
On 2017-11-09 08:51, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 9 November 2017 13:44:50 UTC, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2017-11-09 07:49, nospam wrote:


meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not
open up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all
day long". They do it when needed from time to time.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial
to remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


And most people don;t have desktops and even if they do an external
drive can be plugged in and used in far less than 10 mins and without
the use of any tools.


Sub optimal performance, however. Although with newer serial
interfaces, less so.

IAC I suspect my next Mac will be 100% SSD.



On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious.
And no reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple
aesthetic.


Which lots of people prefer otherwise they'd be buying PC desktops
wouldn't they.


I'm on my 2nd iMac (and have various Macbooks/Airs here and at work).
I replaced the HD in less than an hour on the first one. Under
warranty. It was too much hassle to go through the Apple repair
service. (evaluation, estimate, repair: 5 - 10 business days. Screw that).

2nd iMac I'd budget 2 hours and I'd have iFixIt send me the gasket kit
first.

When I had PC's (including laptops) it took 10 - 15 minutes. Tops. Did
that many times over the years.

The fact that my iMac has a very thin bezel and looks nifty actually
contributes nothing to what it does for me as a computer. Since they
located the HD near the back shell it would have been trivial to have a
port there that could be opened. But they don't. (They do for RAM).

That said I don't see ever going back to a Windows PC. Linux as a
desktop environment is a disaster.

I could rebel and load Mac OS on a high end PC, but that brings a
maintenance "load" with it best left by the side of the road.

Alan Browne November 9th 17 09:59 PM

Ripe Apples
 
On 2017-11-09 09:03, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan
Browne wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not
open up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all
day long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and
other products.


A nonsense reply of convenience.

Having it so a user can maintain and repair it doesn't prevent people
from getting it repaired elsewhere.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial
to remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


A couple screwdrivers. The skills are fairly low end and there a
gazillion sites showing how to do it elsewise. IOW another nonsense
reply of convenience from you.


while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to
open up a computer to swap a hard drive.


Perhaps. But why not make it easier for those who will. Indeed make it
easier for the "pros" (including Apple) who do it? Again and again your
replies are nonsense convenience reasons.


On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious.
And no reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple
aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


Not at all. Many things are designed for maintainability and capability
growth w/o making them more expensive. It's your usual nonsense reply
of convenience.


it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to
be removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last
5-10 years, that's a very good design decision.


No, it's a horrible decision. Batteries here rarely last 5 years due to
the harsh winters. Having to remove a wheel to even examine a battery
for its condition is absolute stupidity. I see why you admire it.

Eric Stevens November 9th 17 10:03 PM

Ripe Apples
 
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 09:03:18 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.


Computer repairers usually charge on the basis of time and that's a
good reason for making the replacement of parts quick and easy.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


No tools were required for this task on the Acer.

while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


But toolless construction makes a computer quicker and cheaper to
build and that's a plus for the manufacturer.

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.


That's a lousy design decision. It's even worse than having to remove
a wheel and the wheel-arch liner just to change a headlight bulb.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens November 9th 17 11:39 PM

Ripe Apples
 
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 13:58:17 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.

The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.

actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.

only if someone has the skills and tools.


Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are
available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is
trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory.


trivial for you and me.

trivial for the average consumer, not so much.

I have someone else
do it, because of a physical limitation.


so it doesn't actually matter. you're making my point.

When I tell a repair guy what I
want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the
price is very reasonable.


not all repairs are that quick


No, some machines are not designed to give the repairer rapid access.

... and not all places will let you watch.

try that at an auto repair shop.

while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.


^^^^^


On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.


pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.


They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple. See http://tinyurl.com/hoz6vdg or
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/...are-to-the-mac

Apart from that Dell does make computers with tool-free access.

hp has a few interesting products, such as the spectre and yoga, but
otherwise, it's the same old boring stuff.

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.

Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.


more insults and there's nothing vague about it.


It's not relevant though.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens


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