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NIKON USA--TERRIBLE SERVICE EXPERIENCE.
I just wanted to let everybody here know about my recent experience
with the Service Dept. at Nikon USA in Melville, New York. About a month ago or so I decided to send one of my Nikon F3HP cameras for service to their Service Dept. at Nikon USA. Since I live in the east coast, I sent the camera to Nikon USA in Melville, New York. I enclosed a letter with the camera explaining that I wanted to have the camera cleaned, lubed and adjusted, and the viewfinder's light bulb and AE Lock button on the body replaced. Few days after they received the camera, they mailed me an estimate for the cost of the repair, they wanted $248.00, which I approved and paid for immediately through Nikon USA website. I waited for about three weeks, then I finally received the camera back. As soon as I took it out of the box, I realized that the AE Lock button hadn't been replaced because it was still loose to the point of almost falling off of the camera, and the leatherette on the body was so poorly reattached that there were several dimples from excessive glue, gaps from misalignment and in some corners the leatherette was even coming off. The camera also showed some signs of mishandling and scratches that it didn't have before it was sent in for service. I wrote them an email complaining about all these problems, and they replied back with a UPS Shipping label for me to resend the camera back to them. I did that the next day, and they received it by November 11th, 2004. Well, I received the camera back from them for the second time last Monday. They did replace the AE Lock button and the viewfinder's light bulb this time, and it seems that the camera was lubricated and adjusted, but they ruined the leatherette completely, now there are even bigger gaps and bigger dimples than before, and the double exposure little handle on top of the camera was scratched and then repainted by the "technician" with a black permanent marker. This camera was in mint condition before it went to Nikon USA, all it needed was to be cleaned, lubed and adjusted and the two parts mentioned above replaced. Now, it looks just terrible, and I'm wondering how this job was performed, just by looking at the body's leatherette cover makes me think that if they were incapable of doing that right, I have no reason to believe that whatever they did on the internal parts of the camera was done the right way. I emailed them again, last Tuesday, and a lady named Melanie Chaplin, who's a Service Relations Supervisor at Nikon USA replied saying that she was forwarding my email to Harold Glassberg, Nikon USA Service Manager because they appreciate customers letting them know when things aren't right... And that was all they had to say. My advise: 1)Do not send your cameras for service at Nikon USA, I had never seen such a poor and mediocre job performed on a camera that, again, was mint when it left my house. 2)Do not pay the extra dollars for the Nikon USA guaranteed product, after seeing this, I don't think it's worth it, this is the same kind of mediocre people that will fix your camera if anything goes wrong with it during the warranty period. |
Have you checked serial numbers -- are you sure the camera you got back was
the one you sent in? |
Nikon screwed me for 359 to 'fix' my scanner, and put me through a similar
ordeal then stopped answering emails. It is the main reason why I will never buy or recommend any product from the company now. If your service department is allowed to go to crap, you should go out of business. -- http://www.chapelhillnoir.com home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto The Improved Links Pages are at http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html "Aguilabrava" wrote in message ups.com... I just wanted to let everybody here know about my recent experience with the Service Dept. at Nikon USA in Melville, New York. About a month ago or so I decided to send one of my Nikon F3HP cameras for service to their Service Dept. at Nikon USA. Since I live in the east coast, I sent the camera to Nikon USA in Melville, New York. I enclosed a letter with the camera explaining that I wanted to have the camera cleaned, lubed and adjusted, and the viewfinder's light bulb and AE Lock button on the body replaced. Few days after they received the camera, they mailed me an estimate for the cost of the repair, they wanted $248.00, which I approved and paid for immediately through Nikon USA website. I waited for about three weeks, then I finally received the camera back. As soon as I took it out of the box, I realized that the AE Lock button hadn't been replaced because it was still loose to the point of almost falling off of the camera, and the leatherette on the body was so poorly reattached that there were several dimples from excessive glue, gaps from misalignment and in some corners the leatherette was even coming off. The camera also showed some signs of mishandling and scratches that it didn't have before it was sent in for service. I wrote them an email complaining about all these problems, and they replied back with a UPS Shipping label for me to resend the camera back to them. I did that the next day, and they received it by November 11th, 2004. Well, I received the camera back from them for the second time last Monday. They did replace the AE Lock button and the viewfinder's light bulb this time, and it seems that the camera was lubricated and adjusted, but they ruined the leatherette completely, now there are even bigger gaps and bigger dimples than before, and the double exposure little handle on top of the camera was scratched and then repainted by the "technician" with a black permanent marker. This camera was in mint condition before it went to Nikon USA, all it needed was to be cleaned, lubed and adjusted and the two parts mentioned above replaced. Now, it looks just terrible, and I'm wondering how this job was performed, just by looking at the body's leatherette cover makes me think that if they were incapable of doing that right, I have no reason to believe that whatever they did on the internal parts of the camera was done the right way. I emailed them again, last Tuesday, and a lady named Melanie Chaplin, who's a Service Relations Supervisor at Nikon USA replied saying that she was forwarding my email to Harold Glassberg, Nikon USA Service Manager because they appreciate customers letting them know when things aren't right... And that was all they had to say. My advise: 1)Do not send your cameras for service at Nikon USA, I had never seen such a poor and mediocre job performed on a camera that, again, was mint when it left my house. 2)Do not pay the extra dollars for the Nikon USA guaranteed product, after seeing this, I don't think it's worth it, this is the same kind of mediocre people that will fix your camera if anything goes wrong with it during the warranty period. |
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:39:43 -0800, Aguilabrava wrote:
snip My advise: 1)Do not send your cameras for service at Nikon USA, I had never seen such a poor and mediocre job performed on a camera that, again, was mint when it left my house. 2)Do not pay the extra dollars for the Nikon USA guaranteed product, after seeing this, I don't think it's worth it, this is the same kind of mediocre people that will fix your camera if anything goes wrong with it during the warranty period. Don't stress, I'm sure that they will sort it out for you. You just have to keep on at them until they give you the service you demand. Did I ever tell you about my experiences with Canon, South Africa? That's a story that with shake your faith, if ever there was one. |
"DALLAS" wrote in message ... On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:39:43 -0800, Aguilabrava wrote: snip My advise: 1)Do not send your cameras for service at Nikon USA, I had never seen such a poor and mediocre job performed on a camera that, again, was mint when it left my house. 2)Do not pay the extra dollars for the Nikon USA guaranteed product, after seeing this, I don't think it's worth it, this is the same kind of mediocre people that will fix your camera if anything goes wrong with it during the warranty period. Don't stress, I'm sure that they will sort it out for you. You just have to keep on at them until they give you the service you demand. Did I ever tell you about my experiences with Canon, South Africa? That's a story that with shake your faith, if ever there was one. Ah. And since South Africa holds the standard by which all Canon service should be measured, I'm sure we're all quite concerned. |
Aguilabrava wrote:
I just wanted to let everybody here know about my recent experience with the Service Dept. at Nikon USA in Melville, New York. [...] Now, it looks just terrible, and I'm wondering how this job was performed, just by looking at the body's leatherette cover makes me think that if they were incapable of doing that right, I have no reason to believe that whatever they did on the internal parts of the camera was done the right way. Could you post some images? Not that I doubt your words: A few years ago they damaged housing of my F90 as it was send in to clean and lub! I can post an image of it. They denied that this was them. BUT: I got also miserable experiences with my two Canon repairs and cleaning! Among others they made my original package vanish, promised a replacement which I never received. Furthermore, I just discovered a drastic fading problem (ca 12 months) with their top of the line A3 photo printers. I am now fighting to force them to take seriously fading problem in their printers. Lost cause, I tell you... Besides I believe that your conclusion about specifically a problem with Nikon US does not touch the real problem, which is a downfall of American customer service quality due to outsourcing to foreign countries and letting service being made by lowest paid workforce. I have quite a list of cases like this, not related to photography though. Let me thus just list a few examples: 1) Linksys, $500 wireless network does not work, 40 emails, protests, letters, lawyer. Solution: got $10 cat-5 cable and have now a cable running across living room, but it works. 2) Symantec SystemWorks 2003 caused drastic performance problem. Uninstall failed, reinstall of version 2001 failed. After 17 emails and several "troubleshooting" papers send me by Symantec I gave up and have a crippled product ever since. 4) Microsoft Streets and Trips 2004 plotted a route through water in Redwood City, CA. I received several emails in severely broken English, seemingly from mainland China. They claimed that Microsoft does not have any control about the routing database and cannot fix it. Yea right, I sure believe *that*, I sure do... I received a contact to a Return Center and we returned the product. We than received two more emails from service supervisors with some bizarre verbal "bowing down" and apologies for the inconvenience. I wrote back, fix the product instead of wasting your time in writing these elaborate texts and wasting my time in reading them. 5) Viewsonic 17" screen: FIVE replacements. We finally got an "upgraded VG700" version, which was also refurbished. It flickers for approx. 30sec after going our of screen saver. My wife said she does not care, she just does not want pack and unpack these screens anymore... And so on. Thus as much I am sorry about your FM3, the reality is: welcome to the club :-( Thomas I emailed them again, last Tuesday, and a lady named Melanie Chaplin, who's a Service Relations Supervisor at Nikon USA replied saying that she was forwarding my email to Harold Glassberg, Nikon USA Service Manager because they appreciate customers letting them know when things aren't right... And that was all they had to say. My advise: 1)Do not send your cameras for service at Nikon USA, I had never seen such a poor and mediocre job performed on a camera that, again, was mint when it left my house. 2)Do not pay the extra dollars for the Nikon USA guaranteed product, after seeing this, I don't think it's worth it, this is the same kind of mediocre people that will fix your camera if anything goes wrong with it during the warranty period. |
In article , ThomasH
wrote: Besides I believe that your conclusion about specifically a problem with Nikon US does not touch the real problem, which is a downfall of American customer service quality due to outsourcing to foreign countries and letting service being made by lowest paid workforce. I think it's more along the lines that the concepts of "repair" and "service" have fallen into disfavor - you're supposed to buy a new one! Face it, most of the stuff we buy is NOT designed to be fixed - the customer who want a repair done is an annoying aberration. The last truly satisfying service interactions I've had were with Leitz and Bang & Olufsen - and note that in both cases, I had to ship the items to europe to be worked on. My general rules of thumb (except for the two companies above) a 1. Never to use the "factory" service depot unless required by warranty. 2. Paradoxically, make sure the place you use is factory authorized. 3. Extensively photograph the item immediately before service. 4. Prepare a printed list stating what you want done; and if possible, have their employee sign it. 5. Examine the item for cosmetic damage IMMEDIATELY on receipt, and test for correct operation ASAP. Not too long ago, I had Apple Computer actually dent the metal housing of a laptop sent in for upgrade - then try to tell me their "Warranty doesn't cover cosmetic issues" And I worked for them at the time! |
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Aguilabrava wrote:
I just wanted to let everybody here know about my recent experience with the Service Dept. at Nikon USA in Melville, New York. A couple of years ago I sent a camera under warranty for repair. They had it returned to the wrong part of the country, to a shop that was demolished years before and had a shopping centre built over it, it was returned to them undelivered - undeterred, they re-sent it to the demolished shop, where someone signed for it. They actually blamed it on the courier, who were just trying to deliver to the address they were given. There was more, and I didn't have a working camera for some 3.5 months, getting compensation to the value of 5 pounds or so in the end, which I refused and sent back. They wouldn't answer my calls, voice mails, messages etc. after that, I even got a receptionist to walk down the hall to personally see the guy I'd been dealing with. Nothing. Useless. Oh, and the complaints department is either part of or is the tech support department (olympus uk), so they have no interest in complaints about themselves/the people they eat lunch with. And the kicker is that the replacement camera had the same fault, which it turns out was a design flaw and they couldn't find the problem, I worked it out for myself in the end. Tom |
"Aguilabrava" wrote in message
ups.com... I just wanted to let everybody here know about my recent experience with the Service Dept. at Nikon USA in Melville, New York. About a month ago or so I decided to send one of my Nikon F3HP cameras for service to their Service Dept. at Nikon USA. Since I live in the east coast, I sent the camera to Nikon USA in Melville, New York. I enclosed a letter with the camera explaining that I wanted to have the camera cleaned, lubed and adjusted, and the viewfinder's light bulb and AE Lock button on the body replaced. Few days after they received the camera, they mailed me an estimate for the cost of the repair, they wanted $248.00, which I approved and paid for immediately through Nikon USA website. I waited for about three weeks, then I finally received the camera back. As soon as I took it out of the box, I realized that the AE Lock button hadn't been replaced because it was still loose to the point of almost falling off of the camera, and the leatherette on the body was so poorly reattached that there were several dimples from excessive glue, gaps from misalignment and in some corners the leatherette was even coming off. The camera also showed some signs of mishandling and scratches that it didn't have before it was sent in for service. I wrote them an email complaining about all these problems, and they replied back with a UPS Shipping label for me to resend the camera back to them. I did that the next day, and they received it by November 11th, 2004. Well, I received the camera back from them for the second time last Monday. They did replace the AE Lock button and the viewfinder's light bulb this time, and it seems that the camera was lubricated and adjusted, but they ruined the leatherette completely, now there are even bigger gaps and bigger dimples than before, and the double exposure little handle on top of the camera was scratched and then repainted by the "technician" with a black permanent marker. This camera was in mint condition before it went to Nikon USA, all it needed was to be cleaned, lubed and adjusted and the two parts mentioned above replaced. Now, it looks just terrible, and I'm wondering how this job was performed, just by looking at the body's leatherette cover makes me think that if they were incapable of doing that right, I have no reason to believe that whatever they did on the internal parts of the camera was done the right way. I emailed them again, last Tuesday, and a lady named Melanie Chaplin, who's a Service Relations Supervisor at Nikon USA replied saying that she was forwarding my email to Harold Glassberg, Nikon USA Service Manager because they appreciate customers letting them know when things aren't right... And that was all they had to say. My advise: 1)Do not send your cameras for service at Nikon USA, I had never seen such a poor and mediocre job performed on a camera that, again, was mint when it left my house. 2)Do not pay the extra dollars for the Nikon USA guaranteed product, after seeing this, I don't think it's worth it, this is the same kind of mediocre people that will fix your camera if anything goes wrong with it during the warranty period. Thank you for the heads up but please *do not* capitalize the title of your posts. Thank you, me |
Bill Hilton wrote:
From: ThomasH I just discovered a drastic fading problem (ca 12 months) with their (Canon) top of the line A3 photo printers. I am now fighting to force them to take seriously fading problem in their printers. Thomas, which paper were you using? The Canon prints are supposed to last up to 30 years or so if kept behind glass BUT only for *one* paper type (the expensive one), the other papers do indeed fade much more quickly. This is well-known (ie, Wilhelm Research). Bill The paper in question is the Glossy Photo paper Plus, and no glas. I know that Canon says it so now, they have sned me the 'exact condition' under which the warranty of 30 years is granted. They say that only the Photo Paper Plus has 4 layers and provides such protection. BUT: They do not say that the barely cheaper Photo Paper Plus might hold for one year only, and I will that they print this in bold on their product. Besides: why to get glossy paper and cover the gloss by glass? A paradox is that several other images printed on the Matte paper, or even on the thin and cheap High Resolution paper (matte has much better shadow gradation!), are supposedly completely unprotected lacking the glossy layer, and yet they look just barely different! Something is wrong with their Photo Paper Plus. http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2...2_s9000_fading I printed this image now on Photo Paper Pro and I have put it on the same place with the same magnetic frame, no glass. We will see one year later! Anyway, my next printer will use pigment inks. Thus, this will be an Epson or a HP. Thomas |
So you are speaking here about Olympus UK, not about Nikon, right?
Tom Hudson wrote: Aguilabrava wrote: I just wanted to let everybody here know about my recent experience with the Service Dept. at Nikon USA in Melville, New York. A couple of years ago I sent a camera under warranty for repair. They had it returned to the wrong part of the country, to a shop that was demolished years before and had a shopping centre built over it, it was returned to them undelivered - undeterred, they re-sent it to the demolished shop, where someone signed for it. They actually blamed it on the courier, who were just trying to deliver to the address they were given. There was more, and I didn't have a working camera for some 3.5 months, getting compensation to the value of 5 pounds or so in the end, which I refused and sent back. They wouldn't answer my calls, voice mails, messages etc. after that, I even got a receptionist to walk down the hall to personally see the guy I'd been dealing with. Nothing. Useless. Oh, and the complaints department is either part of or is the tech support department (olympus uk), so they have no interest in complaints about themselves/the people they eat lunch with. And the kicker is that the replacement camera had the same fault, which it turns out was a design flaw and they couldn't find the problem, I worked it out for myself in the end. Tom |
So you are speaking here about Olympus UK, not about Nikon, right?
Tom Hudson wrote: Aguilabrava wrote: I just wanted to let everybody here know about my recent experience with the Service Dept. at Nikon USA in Melville, New York. A couple of years ago I sent a camera under warranty for repair. They had it returned to the wrong part of the country, to a shop that was demolished years before and had a shopping centre built over it, it was returned to them undelivered - undeterred, they re-sent it to the demolished shop, where someone signed for it. They actually blamed it on the courier, who were just trying to deliver to the address they were given. There was more, and I didn't have a working camera for some 3.5 months, getting compensation to the value of 5 pounds or so in the end, which I refused and sent back. They wouldn't answer my calls, voice mails, messages etc. after that, I even got a receptionist to walk down the hall to personally see the guy I'd been dealing with. Nothing. Useless. Oh, and the complaints department is either part of or is the tech support department (olympus uk), so they have no interest in complaints about themselves/the people they eat lunch with. And the kicker is that the replacement camera had the same fault, which it turns out was a design flaw and they couldn't find the problem, I worked it out for myself in the end. Tom |
ThomasH wrote:
So you are speaking here about Olympus UK, not about Nikon, right? Tom Hudson wrote: tech support department (olympus uk), so they have no interest in Er, yes, though now you mention it I only mention it in passing and even then near the end of the blah. Damn, that's annoying. Oops. If it makes things any clearer, Olympus UK sucks when it comes to after-sales support. Tom |
"Tom Hudson" wrote in message ... ThomasH wrote: So you are speaking here about Olympus UK, not about Nikon, right? Tom Hudson wrote: tech support department (olympus uk), so they have no interest in Er, yes, though now you mention it I only mention it in passing and even then near the end of the blah. Damn, that's annoying. Oops. If it makes things any clearer, Olympus UK sucks when it comes to after-sales support. Tom The truth is just there "after-sales". You paid, they don't care anymore. Why would they anyway? It costs less to loose one or few customers that to provide efficient support. Especially for the under warranty repairs. Once the warranty expires, they don't want to repair your camera. They want you to throw it away and buy a new one... |
"Tom Hudson" wrote in message ... ThomasH wrote: So you are speaking here about Olympus UK, not about Nikon, right? Tom Hudson wrote: tech support department (olympus uk), so they have no interest in Er, yes, though now you mention it I only mention it in passing and even then near the end of the blah. Damn, that's annoying. Oops. If it makes things any clearer, Olympus UK sucks when it comes to after-sales support. Tom The truth is just there "after-sales". You paid, they don't care anymore. Why would they anyway? It costs less to loose one or few customers that to provide efficient support. Especially for the under warranty repairs. Once the warranty expires, they don't want to repair your camera. They want you to throw it away and buy a new one... |
Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies.
It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... |
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. |
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. |
"MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. No, all Canon as far as cameras go. And there is a Canon service center few blocks away, so no need to e-mail anything if it brakes. Used it only once so far for my point and shoot pocket camera. It was under warranty and everything went smoothly. It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. |
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. No, all Canon as far as cameras go. And there is a Canon service center few blocks away, so no need to e-mail anything if it brakes. Used it only once so far for my point and shoot pocket camera. It was under warranty and everything went smoothly. It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. Perhaps you're not acquainted with Canon's L series. The story is entirely diferent. Built like tanks, with absolutely rock solid construction and optical quality. For that matter, Canon's consumer lenses are very well-built...until you get down to the cheapie kit lenses. -Even those don't fall apart as Sigmas have. |
"MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:pkqud.613$2r.309@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. No, all Canon as far as cameras go. And there is a Canon service center few blocks away, so no need to anything if it brakes. Used it only once so far for my point and shoot pocket camera. It was under warranty and everything went smoothly. It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. Perhaps you're not acquainted with Canon's L series. The story is entirely diferent. Built like tanks, with absolutely rock solid construction and optical quality. For that matter, Canon's consumer lenses are very well-built...until you get down to the cheapie kit lenses. -Even those don't fall apart as Sigmas have. I was talking more about the wide public electronics. Obviously a lens worth several thousands dollars is not aimed towards general public. Even few hundred dollar lens is still more that what most people would spend on a complete camera. |
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:pkqud.613$2r.309@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. No, all Canon as far as cameras go. And there is a Canon service center few blocks away, so no need to anything if it brakes. Used it only once so far for my point and shoot pocket camera. It was under warranty and everything went smoothly. It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. Perhaps you're not acquainted with Canon's L series. The story is entirely diferent. Built like tanks, with absolutely rock solid construction and optical quality. For that matter, Canon's consumer lenses are very well-built...until you get down to the cheapie kit lenses. -Even those don't fall apart as Sigmas have. I was talking more about the wide public electronics. Obviously a lens worth several thousands dollars is not aimed towards general public. Even few hundred dollar lens is still more that what most people would spend on a complete camera. Then perhaps your input was misplaced entirely. This is a 35mm equipment forum. The lenses and camera bodies didscussed here are commonly valued in thousands of dollars. There are still companies who take good care of their customers. Canon, for instance, will perform warranty repairs even on imported lenses. |
In article , Paul Bielec
wrote: It costs less to loose one or few customers that to provide efficient support. This is probably the single most important fact about marketing in the 21st century. Support is expensive; advertising is (relatively) cheap. There's always another customer to be found. Especially for the under warranty repairs. Once the warranty expires, they don't want to repair your camera. They want you to throw it away and buy a new one... Not long ago, I purchased an Imation tape drive for my computer, at about $500. When it failed shortly after the warranty expired, I was horrified to discover the company offers ABSOLUTELY NO OUT OF WARRANTY SERVICE. The sole remedy was the purchase of a new unit, despite the fact that the only thing wrong was the external power supply (with an unusual voltage and a proprietary connector). I escalated my complaints to some species of manager, and made the usual threat of never buying their products again - and was told, in so many words, "So what?" |
In article , Paul Bielec
wrote: It costs less to loose one or few customers that to provide efficient support. This is probably the single most important fact about marketing in the 21st century. Support is expensive; advertising is (relatively) cheap. There's always another customer to be found. Especially for the under warranty repairs. Once the warranty expires, they don't want to repair your camera. They want you to throw it away and buy a new one... Not long ago, I purchased an Imation tape drive for my computer, at about $500. When it failed shortly after the warranty expired, I was horrified to discover the company offers ABSOLUTELY NO OUT OF WARRANTY SERVICE. The sole remedy was the purchase of a new unit, despite the fact that the only thing wrong was the external power supply (with an unusual voltage and a proprietary connector). I escalated my complaints to some species of manager, and made the usual threat of never buying their products again - and was told, in so many words, "So what?" |
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "Tom Hudson" wrote in message ... ThomasH wrote: So you are speaking here about Olympus UK, not about Nikon, right? Tom Hudson wrote: tech support department (olympus uk), so they have no interest in Er, yes, though now you mention it I only mention it in passing and even then near the end of the blah. Damn, that's annoying. Oops. If it makes things any clearer, Olympus UK sucks when it comes to after-sales support. Tom The truth is just there "after-sales". You paid, they don't care anymore. Why would they anyway? It costs less to loose one or few customers that to provide efficient support. Especially for the under warranty repairs. Once the warranty expires, they don't want to repair your camera. They want you to throw it away and buy a new one... There are many businesses today that don't want to have to do anything for their money. The owner just wants to spend his time out on the golf course while teenagers stand by the cash register with their hands out taking in the money. There are a few really good repair organizations that are still in existence. One is IBM. They charge you a monthly fee for the service contract on their machinery, and they stand by it. I have seen whole machines replaced because they couldn't fix some ridiculous thing. There was one machine (an extraordinarily simple machine) that they actually sent back to the factory and had it stripped down to the frame and completely rebuilt. (of course, the customer got a new machine long before that) |
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. No, all Canon as far as cameras go. And there is a Canon service center few blocks away, so no need to e-mail anything if it brakes. Used it only once so far for my point and shoot pocket camera. It was under warranty and everything went smoothly. It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. Or, you do the following: You find a small company that is well known for building a quality product. You buy them. Then you have a billion cheap plastic imitations made in China (or somewhere) with the company's logo on them. You sell them at an inflated price and make lots of money before the buying public catches on that the company is no longer selling quality merchandise. |
William Graham wrote: "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "Mark=B2" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. No, all Canon as far as cameras go. And there is a Canon service center few blocks away, so no need to anything if it brakes. Used it only once so far for my point and shoot pocket camera. It was under warranty and everything went smoothly. It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. Or, you do the following: You find a small company that is well known for building a quality product. You buy them. Then you have a billion cheap plastic imitations made in China (or somewhere) with the company's logo on them. You sell them at an inflated price and make lots of money before the buying public catches on that the company is no longer selling quality merchandise. ^^^ Exactly! Or - you're already owning and running a small company that is well know for building a quality product. So, then you decide that you want to become big, and even knowing darn well that your previous reputation is going to go down the drain, you decide that you want to plow headlong into the mass market. However, despite the fact that quality-wise you're now making the most "pedestrian" products imaginable, your buying public will still think that there's some "mystique" to your brand name, and that magic fairies build (*and* are the only ones who can properly service) your product in secret manufacturing facilites in the Andes mountains. |
William Graham wrote: "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "Mark=B2" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... You sound like a Sigma owner. No, all Canon as far as cameras go. And there is a Canon service center few blocks away, so no need to anything if it brakes. Used it only once so far for my point and shoot pocket camera. It was under warranty and everything went smoothly. It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. Or, you do the following: You find a small company that is well known for building a quality product. You buy them. Then you have a billion cheap plastic imitations made in China (or somewhere) with the company's logo on them. You sell them at an inflated price and make lots of money before the buying public catches on that the company is no longer selling quality merchandise. ^^^ Exactly! Or - you're already owning and running a small company that is well know for building a quality product. So, then you decide that you want to become big, and even knowing darn well that your previous reputation is going to go down the drain, you decide that you want to plow headlong into the mass market. However, despite the fact that quality-wise you're now making the most "pedestrian" products imaginable, your buying public will still think that there's some "mystique" to your brand name, and that magic fairies build (*and* are the only ones who can properly service) your product in secret manufacturing facilites in the Andes mountains. |
"MarkČ" wrote:
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... [...] It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. Perhaps you're not acquainted with Canon's L series. The story is entirely diferent. Built like tanks, with absolutely rock solid construction and optical quality. Ahem, ahem.... my 100-400 L IS was the *only* lens which I was forced to repair. The manual focus ring became very jerky I heard strange grinding noise inside while I was turning the ring. The assembly was replaced, cost $300. Old Nikkors were build like rock! My 80-200F/2.8 ED (the single ring shift version) took some beating over the years and is still going strong. The only fault is that the spring holding the aperture ring mechanism is weak and sometimes the stupid ring turns and disables the program mode... It's one more reason that I am not sad about Nikons transition to G type of lenses... Thomas For that matter, Canon's consumer lenses are very well-built...until you get down to the cheapie kit lenses. -Even those don't fall apart as Sigmas have. |
"MarkČ" wrote:
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... "MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message news:U_pud.607$2r.129@fed1read02... [...] It was more of a general statement. Brands don't mean much anymore. That you buy a Sony, a JVC, a Panasonic or Sanyo doesn't change anything. There is probably one of them that own another, or a part of it. They share components and are all made in China and surroundings. They'll have better finishing and better feeling that the no name product you'll find at Wal-Mart, but that's about it. And we cannot blame the companies neither. We had the choice of no buying the cheaper products at the beginning. Now it's clear that there is more money to be made with the quantity rather than the quality. Perhaps you're not acquainted with Canon's L series. The story is entirely diferent. Built like tanks, with absolutely rock solid construction and optical quality. Ahem, ahem.... my 100-400 L IS was the *only* lens which I was forced to repair. The manual focus ring became very jerky I heard strange grinding noise inside while I was turning the ring. The assembly was replaced, cost $300. Old Nikkors were build like rock! My 80-200F/2.8 ED (the single ring shift version) took some beating over the years and is still going strong. The only fault is that the spring holding the aperture ring mechanism is weak and sometimes the stupid ring turns and disables the program mode... It's one more reason that I am not sad about Nikons transition to G type of lenses... Thomas For that matter, Canon's consumer lenses are very well-built...until you get down to the cheapie kit lenses. -Even those don't fall apart as Sigmas have. |
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message
... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... Who do you think is to blame for this? me |
"Paul Bielec" wrote in message
... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... Who do you think is to blame for this? me |
"MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message
news:I0rud.624$2r.122@fed1read02... This is a 35mm equipment forum. The lenses and camera bodies didscussed here are commonly valued in thousands of dollars. You couldn't be more wrong snob. Film, Ahhhh! me |
"MarkČ" mjmorgan(lowest even number wrote in message
news:I0rud.624$2r.122@fed1read02... This is a 35mm equipment forum. The lenses and camera bodies didscussed here are commonly valued in thousands of dollars. You couldn't be more wrong snob. Film, Ahhhh! me |
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:35:13 -0800, MarkČ wrote:
Did I ever tell you about my experiences with Canon, South Africa? That's a story that with shake your faith, if ever there was one. Ah. And since South Africa holds the standard by which all Canon service should be measured, I'm sure we're all quite concerned. Mark is looking for an argument again. Bye-bye, Mark. Have a nice day. |
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:35:13 -0800, MarkČ wrote:
Did I ever tell you about my experiences with Canon, South Africa? That's a story that with shake your faith, if ever there was one. Ah. And since South Africa holds the standard by which all Canon service should be measured, I'm sure we're all quite concerned. Mark is looking for an argument again. Bye-bye, Mark. Have a nice day. |
"DALLAS" wrote in message ... On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:35:13 -0800, MarkČ wrote: Did I ever tell you about my experiences with Canon, South Africa? That's a story that with shake your faith, if ever there was one. Ah. And since South Africa holds the standard by which all Canon service should be measured, I'm sure we're all quite concerned. Mark is looking for an argument again. With you? No, Dallas. There's nothing new in your posts. You persist in assuming that your tiny little corner of the world is sufficient to qualify as representative of the globe when it comes to making your pronouncements about this and that. Have a nice day. Thanks. |
"DALLAS" wrote in message ... On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:35:13 -0800, MarkČ wrote: Did I ever tell you about my experiences with Canon, South Africa? That's a story that with shake your faith, if ever there was one. Ah. And since South Africa holds the standard by which all Canon service should be measured, I'm sure we're all quite concerned. Mark is looking for an argument again. With you? No, Dallas. There's nothing new in your posts. You persist in assuming that your tiny little corner of the world is sufficient to qualify as representative of the globe when it comes to making your pronouncements about this and that. Have a nice day. Thanks. |
"me" wrote in message ... "Paul Bielec" wrote in message ... Any big corporation that says that the customer satisfaction counts, lies. It is like a politician saying that he cares...yeah right... All that matters to them are the figures they'll be able to show at the next shareholder meeting. How to manufacture the product as cheaply as possible, using the cheapest resources available and still convince the customer that he buys the best there is. So the camera that was once made using metal parts in Japan, is now made out of plastic in China. And when it brakes, you'll be able to reach the customer support in India to help you out... Who do you think is to blame for this? me Why is it your fault? |
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