Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On 8/24/2018 8:46 AM, David Taylor wrote:
On 24/08/2018 11:34, RJH wrote:
[]
In my hardly informed opinion, the reason for being of mirrorless
seems to be many of the the advantages of DSLR without the size,
weight and cost. About right?

Yes, it should be, but once you get into full-frame, the lenses are
typically /not/ that much smaller (even worse if you use older lenses
which then need an adapter).Â* Weight, yes, but nothing like as much
saving as APS-C or Micro Four Thirds.Â* As to cost, I don't get that
impression from the Nikon offerings!


Since I started using a scooter, weight has become less of an issue for
me. Yes, many shooting areas are not accessible, but it is not the
weight of the photo gear that is stopping me.


--
PeterN

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On 8/24/2018 9:34 AM, Savageduck wrote:


snip


If Nikon decides to release an APS-C MILC using this design concept they will
always be restricted by the mount size, unless they come up with yet another
new mount and lens family. Regardless, Niikon APS-C DSLR shooters who own and
use 85% of the Nikon sales are the ones who will be herded toward the more
costly FF MILC offering.

That is a valid point, and applicable to most DX shooters.

I have two DX lenses that work fine on my FF, without switching to crop
mode. My 12-24 works fine at 15 mm and up, and I get some interesting
results with my 10.5. I sometimes carry the 12-24 on a wide and my
28-300 on some shoots. Admittedly the latter is a specialty lens, that
can give me the WA effect of about a 13 rectilinear in FF.



--
PeterN

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On 24/08/2018 19:31, PeterN wrote:
[]
Since I started using a scooter, weight has become less of an issue for
me. Yes, many shooting areas are not accessible, but it is not the
weight of the photo gear that is stopping me.

I can appreciate that. I'm mostly using public transport and walking,
so it's become more important for me. I no longer do "big" prints, so
45 MP aren't required.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On 25/08/2018 06:48, RichA wrote:
[]
Though you can use a shorter lens with the 45mp and crop a bit and get the same result as a full-frame shot with 24mp. More or less.

Not a good "engineering" solution!

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On 2018-08-24 06:34, RJH wrote:
On 24/08/2018 06:02, Savageduck wrote:
On Aug 23, 2018, RichA wrote
(in ):

All the potential ship-jumpers will no longer have to. Plus, all
those Nikon
lenses and thousands of others once aftermarket adapters hit.

I think I will skip either one of these. Nikon missed the MILC target
with
these two cameras, but it is a start, so perhaps in 4-5 years they
will have
a good MILC which can replace the D850, 0r even the D500, but not yet. I
don’t think that Nikon has quite got the concept or mirrorless.

snip

In my hardly informed opinion, the reason for being of mirrorless seems
to be many of the the advantages of DSLR without the size, weight and
cost. About right?

The Sony mirrorlesses, great cameras, are certainly not light (they have
that "hefty feel of hard quality") and are definitely not low cost.

I'd add other benefits: mechanical simplicity and therefore higher
reliability (that said, I've never had a shutter or mirror mechanism
failure).


--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On 8/25/2018 1:48 AM, RichA wrote:
On Saturday, 25 August 2018 01:34:56 UTC-4, David Taylor wrote:
On 24/08/2018 19:31, PeterN wrote:
[]
Since I started using a scooter, weight has become less of an issue for
me. Yes, many shooting areas are not accessible, but it is not the
weight of the photo gear that is stopping me.

I can appreciate that. I'm mostly using public transport and walking,
so it's become more important for me. I no longer do "big" prints, so
45 MP aren't required.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

Though you can use a shorter lens with the 45mp and crop a bit and get the same result as a full-frame shot with 24mp. More or less.


Do some basic arithmetic and crop to an Oly mirrorless.

--
PeterN

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On Aug 24, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 8/24/2018 9:34 AM, Savageduck wrote:

snip


If Nikon decides to release an APS-C MILC using this design concept they
will
always be restricted by the mount size, unless they come up with yet another
new mount and lens family. Regardless, Niikon APS-C DSLR shooters who own
and
use 85% of the Nikon sales are the ones who will be herded toward the more
costly FF MILC offering.

That is a valid point, and applicable to most DX shooters.

I have two DX lenses that work fine on my FF, without switching to crop
mode. My 12-24 works fine at 15 mm and up, and I get some interesting
results with my 10.5. I sometimes carry the 12-24 on a wide and my
28-300 on some shoots. Admittedly the latter is a specialty lens, that
can give me the WA effect of about a 13 rectilinear in FF.

https://fstoppers.com/originals/why-nikon-mirrorless-already-sucks-281002

--

Regards,
Savageduck

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 17:27:58 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On Aug 24, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 8/24/2018 9:34 AM, Savageduck wrote:

snip


If Nikon decides to release an APS-C MILC using this design concept they
will
always be restricted by the mount size, unless they come up with yet another
new mount and lens family. Regardless, Niikon APS-C DSLR shooters who own
and
use 85% of the Nikon sales are the ones who will be herded toward the more
costly FF MILC offering.

That is a valid point, and applicable to most DX shooters.

I have two DX lenses that work fine on my FF, without switching to crop
mode. My 12-24 works fine at 15 mm and up, and I get some interesting
results with my 10.5. I sometimes carry the 12-24 on a wide and my
28-300 on some shoots. Admittedly the latter is a specialty lens, that
can give me the WA effect of about a 13 rectilinear in FF.

https://fstoppers.com/originals/why-nikon-mirrorless-already-sucks-281002

Sounds to me like a mind already made up before he tried the camera.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

On Aug 25, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 17:27:58 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On Aug 24, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 8/24/2018 9:34 AM, Savageduck wrote:

snip


If Nikon decides to release an APS-C MILC using this design concept they
will
always be restricted by the mount size, unless they come up with yet
another
new mount and lens family. Regardless, Niikon APS-C DSLR shooters who own
and
use 85% of the Nikon sales are the ones who will be herded toward the more
costly FF MILC offering.

That is a valid point, and applicable to most DX shooters.

I have two DX lenses that work fine on my FF, without switching to crop
mode. My 12-24 works fine at 15 mm and up, and I get some interesting
results with my 10.5. I sometimes carry the 12-24 on a wide and my
28-300 on some shoots. Admittedly the latter is a specialty lens, that
can give me the WA effect of about a 13 rectilinear in FF.

https://fstoppers.com/originals/why-nikon-mirrorless-already-sucks-281002

Sounds to me like a mind already made up before he tried the camera.

There are issues; they are priced as if they are D850’s, D5’s, or
D500’s. Unfortunately, the Z7, regardless of sharing the same sensor is not
a mirrorless version of the D850. There is only a single XQD memory slot. AF
does not match that of the Nikon DSLRs, and is no match for their most
serious FF MILC competition, the Sony a7 III, and Sony a7R III. poor face AF,
and no eye-AF. Initially they will only have three native “S� lenses with
a development road map. Their solution, use legacy “F� Nikkor glass with
the $300 adaptor. They have been hyped to revolutionize the mirrorless
market, and they missed that mark by two years. It seems that the only reason
one might care to buy either one of these cameras, is already being heavily
invested in Nikkor “F� mount glass. The consensus is, you would be better
off buying a D850, or D500, and forget the Nikon Z cameras.

Most of the reviewers at the Nikon NYC event were given time to use the
cameras, and while they noted the general quality, the lens roadmap, etc.
they were left sratcking their heads wondering why Nikon had learned nothing
from Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, and Fujifilm in the development of mirrorless
cameras.

Then one should consider that over 85% of Nikon DSLR sales are entry level
consumer/prosumer APS-C DSLRs, and both the Z6, and the Z7 do not point the
way forward for a nikon APS-C mirrorless. The massive new “S� mount is
not suited for the Nikon DX glass, another mount design, and lens line would
be needed for those folks. I seriously doubt that either of these cameras are
going to win the FF MILC war with Sony. So this leaves Olympus, Panasonic,
Fujifilm, Canon, and Sony to share the M43, APS-C MILC market. If one is
looking for affordable MF there is the Fujifilm GFX-50S, and the soon to be
released GFX-100S.

We shall see what Canon brings to the FF mirrorless market, but if they are
going to go head to head with Sony, and these Nikons, they have their work
cut out for them.

As far as I am concerned, really have no need for any FF camera, DSLR, or
MILC. I have become quite comfortable with my X-T2, and X-E3. I am interested
to see what the forthcoming X-T3 will bring, so far the rumors are very
promising.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

Nikon mirrorless FF's launch. Sony FF sales about to drop. A lot.
 

In article .com,
Savageduck wrote:

Sandman:
In what way did they miss the mark, though?

Start with the single memory slot.

Yeah, that seems to be the only valid complaint.

Sandman:
Same resolution, more focusing points, smaller camera, higher
frame rate.

...er, not too much smaller

Huh? It's a lot smaller. It's by far the smallest FF digital camera Nikon
has ever made.

, especially with the fat “S" glass
designed for the Zs. In a smaller world the M43, and APS-C MILCs
have nothing to fear from the FF MILCs.

But you compared it to the D850, not to lesser smaller cameras.

Sandman:
The unknowns, at least to me, is focusing speed. I haven't watched
any reviews yet.

From what I have read the AF does not match up to the D850, D5, or
D500, and Nikon isn’t going to erode sales of those cameras with
either the Z6, or Z7. They are going to try to get a piece of the
Sony FF pie, and they are going to pick up sales fron Nikon FF DSLR
owners who have been reluctant to move into the MILC world.

Seeing how Sony A7 focusing speed trounces Nikon today, if they want to
compete, that's an important factor.

Sandman:
As far as I can determine, the D850 has it beat on shots per
battery charge.

...and that is another issue. If Nikon is trying to produce a pro FF
MILC it needs to compete with the Nikon pro DSLRs with all specs,
including battery life.

Nikon is trying to compete with the A7, not their own DSLR's. A non-
insignificant part of the photographing world is moving to mirrorless, and
Nikon is missing out. In doing so, their target is not to compete with their
own top of the line DSLR's but with the guys that keep snatching up their
customers.

For now both the Z6 & Z7 are high priced
prosumer MILCs with a limited native lens availability (admitedly
there is the promise of the “S� lens roadmap).

Indeed, which is exactly where Sony was a bunch of years ago, with the A7.

Using F mount
lenses with the adaptor turns what should be a reasonably compact
system into an unwieldly kludge.

Huh? You're not making much sense. The adaptor increases the flange
distance, i.e. it adds bulk that is already present in all current F-mount
Nikon cameras to be backwards compatible. A Z6 plus the adapter would be as
"unwieldy" as a D7100.

even with the adaptor none of their
older screw focus lenses will work. For folks looking for a FF MILC
system they should consider the Sony offerings.

That's already what they are doing. Sony is the only player, and they're
doing a marvellous job, with amazing offerings for prosumer up to pro.
That's the piece of the pie that Nikon is losing and is wanting to get back.
Backwards compatibility with the F-mount is pretty crucial to that, seeing
how Nikon has a hundred times more and better glass than Sony could ever
dream of.

Sandman:
Whether it's a worthy competitor to the A7R III is another story.

For now it seems the Sony has the edge. However, there are going to
be a whole bunch of Nikon FF shooters with legacy F mount glass who
are going to be tempted.

I bet.

--
Sandman