Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

Hi,

For the first time this evening I developed a B&W print in my
Uniroller drum on a motorized Uniroller base. I am using Ilford
Multigrade IV RC "Deluxe" with Ilford Multigrade developer. Having
never used a Uniroller before (and being unable to find directions for
B&W print processing with it on the web), I just followed the paper's
instructions for dish developing, using a dilution of 1:9 for one
minute.

This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black -- absolutely nothing came through, not
even a hint of that 2 second exposure. So I experimented with the
development time for the uniroller, and found that if I developed for
only 20 seconds with constant drum agitation, I got relatively more of
normal image (normal given that I was still over exposing the print by
two stops -- see below).

Now this is all very disorienting to me (I feel as dizzy as I myself
were spinning in that drum!). I mean, it seems like I eventually got
an ok print when developing it for 20 seconds (the final exposure time
for this particular print turned out to be two stops less than where I
started, half the time, and down from f/11 to f/16). But I'm working
with a questionable negative, and am unsure if what I don't like about
the final print is the negative, or whether something about the print
process is mudying the print. Given my set up, I don't have a way of
developing in trays and comparing the results with what I'm getting
from the Uniroller.

I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Is there a rule of thumb for print development time with a Uniroller?

Should I try working with the multigrad developer in a more diluted
form (ilford suggests 1:14 as an alternative to 1:9)?

And does anywone know where I can find information about using a
Uniroller for B&W processing on the web?

Thanks!

--Phil

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

Phil Glaser wrote:

Hi,

For the first time this evening I developed a B&W print in my
Uniroller drum on a motorized Uniroller base. I am using Ilford
Multigrade IV RC "Deluxe" with Ilford Multigrade developer. Having
never used a Uniroller before (and being unable to find directions for
B&W print processing with it on the web), I just followed the paper's
instructions for dish developing, using a dilution of 1:9 for one
minute.

This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black -- absolutely nothing came through, not
even a hint of that 2 second exposure. So I experimented with the
development time for the uniroller, and found that if I developed for
only 20 seconds with constant drum agitation, I got relatively more of
normal image (normal given that I was still over exposing the print by
two stops -- see below).

Now this is all very disorienting to me (I feel as dizzy as I myself
were spinning in that drum!). I mean, it seems like I eventually got
an ok print when developing it for 20 seconds (the final exposure time
for this particular print turned out to be two stops less than where I
started, half the time, and down from f/11 to f/16). But I'm working
with a questionable negative, and am unsure if what I don't like about
the final print is the negative, or whether something about the print
process is mudying the print. Given my set up, I don't have a way of
developing in trays and comparing the results with what I'm getting
from the Uniroller.

I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Is there a rule of thumb for print development time with a Uniroller?

Should I try working with the multigrad developer in a more diluted
form (ilford suggests 1:14 as an alternative to 1:9)?

And does anywone know where I can find information about using a
Uniroller for B&W processing on the web?

Thanks!

--Phil
I am never comfortable with reducing development time to compensate for
overexposure of paper. I use a tray, but I develop to completion,
meaning until no more image comes up. There is some leeway between that
point and the point at which fogging begins if exposure is correct.
Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time. More vigorous agitation will have
less effect.

I do not see how you could get pure black without a very long developing
time unless the exposure was too long. If that is the case, less
development will not give the best print.

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

"Patrick Gainer" wrote in message
...


Phil Glaser wrote:

Hi,

For the first time this evening I developed a B&W print in my
Uniroller drum on a motorized Uniroller base. I am using Ilford
Multigrade IV RC "Deluxe" with Ilford Multigrade developer. Having
never used a Uniroller before (and being unable to find directions for
B&W print processing with it on the web), I just followed the paper's
instructions for dish developing, using a dilution of 1:9 for one
minute.

This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black -- absolutely nothing came through, not
even a hint of that 2 second exposure. So I experimented with the
development time for the uniroller, and found that if I developed for
only 20 seconds with constant drum agitation, I got relatively more of
normal image (normal given that I was still over exposing the print by
two stops -- see below).

Now this is all very disorienting to me (I feel as dizzy as I myself
were spinning in that drum!). I mean, it seems like I eventually got
an ok print when developing it for 20 seconds (the final exposure time
for this particular print turned out to be two stops less than where I
started, half the time, and down from f/11 to f/16). But I'm working
with a questionable negative, and am unsure if what I don't like about
the final print is the negative, or whether something about the print
process is mudying the print. Given my set up, I don't have a way of
developing in trays and comparing the results with what I'm getting
from the Uniroller.

I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Is there a rule of thumb for print development time with a Uniroller?

Should I try working with the multigrad developer in a more diluted
form (ilford suggests 1:14 as an alternative to 1:9)?

And does anywone know where I can find information about using a
Uniroller for B&W processing on the web?

Thanks!

--Phil
I am never comfortable with reducing development time to compensate for
overexposure of paper. I use a tray, but I develop to completion,
meaning until no more image comes up. There is some leeway between that
point and the point at which fogging begins if exposure is correct.
Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time. More vigorous agitation will have
less effect.

I do not see how you could get pure black without a very long developing
time unless the exposure was too long. If that is the case, less
development will not give the best print.

Those are really out of the ordinary times. Could you, by chance, have an
extra pright bulb in your enlarger? Is your negative REALLY thin? Could
you have reversed the directions for diluting the developer so that you
mixed 9 parts of developer with one part water instead of the other way
around? Could your paper be fogged (are the white borders really white?)
Charles Portland Or

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

Patrick Gainer wrote in message


Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time.

The instructions for my paper, Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe, say
that with Multigrade developer diluted 1:9, 1 minute is the
recommended time. Are you suggesting that these instructions are wrong
(it would clearly not be the first time a photographic material
manufcaturer's instructions were wrong . . . )

--Phil

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

"Phil Glaser" wrote in message
om...
Patrick Gainer wrote in message


Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time.

The instructions for my paper, Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe, say
that with Multigrade developer diluted 1:9, 1 minute is the
recommended time. Are you suggesting that these instructions are wrong
(it would clearly not be the first time a photographic material
manufcaturer's instructions were wrong . . . )

--Phil

The Ilford Multigrade is a fast developer, so as mentioned by ilford, 1
minute should be enough.
I do prefer slower developers and developing times around 2' (and
development to completion, shortening developer time is a good way to obtain
greyish blacks).
I too suspect a strong overexposure or fogging.

Regards,
--
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

"Michael Scarpitti" wrote in message
om...
My question is why bother using a drum for B&W paper? Trays are
actually easier and faster, as you do not have to load a tray!

I do it for large print sizes because I do have the drum to accept 50x60cm
but my larger trays are 30x40cm.
Another advantage is that you don't need lots of chemistry, a liter is more
than enough.

Regards,
--
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

(Phil Glaser) wrote

Given my set up, I don't have a way of developing in trays...

You might give the one-tray method a try. I use the one-tray throw-
away, but others use the one-tray and save way.
The basics are developer, water rinse, fix. I suggest small fluid
volumes. Eight ounces should be plenty for 8x10s. Developer concentration
should be sufficient for good results and no more. Fixer can be used
very dilute and tossed.
If fumes are still a problem, try sodium or the non-acidified ammonium
thiosulfates. Dan

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

"Phil Glaser"

Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time.

The instructions for my paper, Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe, say
that with Multigrade developer diluted 1:9, 1 minute is the
recommended time.

("What's a mother to do?" -- US TV advert)

Paper developing times vary with the paper. Some 'Rapid' types do
their thing in 30 Sec., with the inclusion of developer in the
emulsion. RC's look ok to me at 1 minute, TTTT. I always give
fiber base 2 minutes, the blacks just look better (or so I convince
myself). Some photographer's prefer 4 minutes.

And that's all with Dektol/D-72.

Experiment, see if you can see a difference at one and two minutes.
If you can't, then don't waste the time.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

Phil Glaser wrote:

Patrick Gainer wrote in message

Ordinarilly, 2 minutes are sufficient, 1 minute is not enough. Higher
concentration will decrease the time.

The instructions for my paper, Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe, say
that with Multigrade developer diluted 1:9, 1 minute is the
recommended time. Are you suggesting that these instructions are wrong
(it would clearly not be the first time a photographic material
manufcaturer's instructions were wrong . . . )

--Phil
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to my setup, using trays. The
developer I normally use, which is home brew, needs 2 minutes to get the
maximum black and normal contrast. If it is too dark after 2 minutes,
reducing the development will not make a better print. The time for your
setup is 1 minute, so I would say if you fell that less than 1 minute
would be better, there is a good probability that the exposure was too
much.

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

The following will not apply to drum development, but it may be of
interest in this thread.

To be sure full development is reached, especially as the developer is
used and becomes weaker, Adams used a procedure he called 'proportional
development'. (I'm 99% sure that was the term he used, but I can't find
it in one of his books right away.)

Once he determined the development time needed for a given developer
when it was fresh, he noted the time it took the image to first come up
in the tray. As the time for first appearance of the image increased,
he would increase the total development time by the same percent. For
example if a developer requiring 150 seconds for total development
needed 20 seconds for first image appearance when fresh, then when it
weakened to the point that it needed 24 seconds, he would increase the
total development time by that same 20% to arrive at 180 seconds.

Bob
-----------------------
Phil Glaser wrote:

Hi,

For the first time this evening I developed a B&W print in my
Uniroller drum on a motorized Uniroller base. I am using Ilford
Multigrade IV RC "Deluxe" with Ilford Multigrade developer. Having
never used a Uniroller before (and being unable to find directions for
B&W print processing with it on the web), I just followed the paper's
instructions for dish developing, using a dilution of 1:9 for one
minute.

This first print was a series of test exposures starting with 2
seconds at f/11. Now I realize that agitation and development time do
not affect paper in the same way as they do film, and that saying 2
seconds at f/11 is completely relative to the density of the negative.
Nonetheless, I was rather shocked to find that the the print came out
absolutely completely black -- absolutely nothing came through, not
even a hint of that 2 second exposure. So I experimented with the
development time for the uniroller, and found that if I developed for
only 20 seconds with constant drum agitation, I got relatively more of
normal image (normal given that I was still over exposing the print by
two stops -- see below).

Now this is all very disorienting to me (I feel as dizzy as I myself
were spinning in that drum!). I mean, it seems like I eventually got
an ok print when developing it for 20 seconds (the final exposure time
for this particular print turned out to be two stops less than where I
started, half the time, and down from f/11 to f/16). But I'm working
with a questionable negative, and am unsure if what I don't like about
the final print is the negative, or whether something about the print
process is mudying the print. Given my set up, I don't have a way of
developing in trays and comparing the results with what I'm getting
from the Uniroller.

I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Is there a rule of thumb for print development time with a Uniroller?

Should I try working with the multigrad developer in a more diluted
form (ilford suggests 1:14 as an alternative to 1:9)?

And does anywone know where I can find information about using a
Uniroller for B&W processing on the web?

Thanks!

--Phil

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

What kind of enlarger are you using. If its not a color head type
what filter are you using? Note that the speed of variable contrast
paper without a filter is twice what it is with the filter. If you are
using a color head and still get overly short times try adding some
yellow to get a neutral density effect.

I am using a Besseler 23C II with a non-color head.

The borders are nice and white, so no fogging.

Listen, I am sorry to have stirred this all up (no pun intended)
because I now realize that it was indeed an exposure problem. The shot
was a picture of a scene that I had contrtived with a luminance range
adequate to tell whether my _film_ developing time was correct (i.e.,
highlights not blocked, etc.). In the course of placing the shaddows
in zone II, I deliberately "underexposed" (as far as my light meter is
concerned) by three stops, but neglected to realize that my highlights
(which were seven stops away from the shaddows according to the light
meter) were now _also_ underexposed by three stops. So my negative was
just TOO THIN.

Moreover, I was printing on 5x7 paper. I don't know by what factor
that should reduce print exposure time, but it must reduce it
somewhat. I had been doing 8x10 for a while and neglected to take that
change into consideration.

I think everything is ok with my equipment, paper, and developer. It
is just my inexperience in evaluating negatives (and calculating
correct negative exposure) that led me astray here.

Thanks!

--Phil

Adjust B&W paper development time when using Uniroller?
 

"Phil Glaser" wrote in message
om...
snip Moreover, I was printing on 5x7 paper. I don't know by what factor
that should reduce print exposure time, but it must reduce it
somewhat. I had been doing 8x10 for a while and neglected to take that
change into consideration.

Exposure (all other conditions identical) is proportional to the surface
ratio of projected images: if you double the surface, you double the
exposure to obtain the same densities.
In your case, going from 8x10 to 5x7, you should reduce exposure by roughly
1 stop.

I developed a lab software, you may try it for educational purposes:
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/labsoft.htm
Third tab of the dry side part does this kind of calculations.

I think everything is ok with my equipment, paper, and developer. It
is just my inexperience in evaluating negatives (and calculating
correct negative exposure) that led me astray here.

Test strips are a good way to go ... :-)


Thanks!

--Phil

Regards,
--
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch