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A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
In article , android
wrote: The sensor is probably dated and optimised for x-rays probably not. I stated the reasons for that opinion in that that you snipped. You're dead wrong, of course! :-ppp it's for normal visible light photography, *not* x-rays, which means *you* are wrong. |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
On 2018-04-19 04:09:31 +0000, nospam said:
In article , android wrote: The sensor is probably dated and optimised for x-rays probably not. I stated the reasons for that opinion in that that you snipped. You're dead wrong, of course! :-ppp it's for normal visible light photography, *not* x-rays, which means *you* are wrong. Of course not... Read up bozo! :-ppp -- teleportation kills |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
On 4/19/2018 4:55 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 April 2018 21:02:56 UTC+1, nospam wrote: In article , Neil wrote: If that 12 megapixel is the actual resolution and isn't a typo, I'd much rather carry my Olympus TG-4. while it may be easier to carry, it has much smaller pixels, therefore much higher noise. "Much" higher noise? yes. I seriously doubt it. then you don't understand physics. S/N has more parameters than just pixel size. so what? the dominant factor for noise is pixel size. larger pixels collect more light. basic physics. whtas you're realy intrested in is the ratio NOT the amount of noise. It is far better to have a larger sensor even if you pick up more noise than a small sensor picking up noise that is why noise is defined as a signal to noise ratio. the 12mp 8x10 camera has 75 micron pixels. those are *huge*. its base iso is 2100, versus a base iso of 100-200 on a typical slr. Doesn't mean much though does it. It;s lioke saying a 2 1/1 square neg will collect more dust than a 35mm slide. https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/art...eSense-Sensor- Size-Comparison-x800.jpeg size matters. full frame sensors have about a stop less noise than crop sensors, which have about a stop less noise than micro 4/3rds, which have a lot less noise than compact cameras and certainly cellphone cameras, which have tiny sensors and very aggressive noise reduction (which works fairly well, but not without compromise). So a bigger sensor means less noise for the same sensor type. Nospam ignores the fact that his reply to my comment was comparing _cameras_, not the noise level of a single sensor cell. At 12mp, the final output of that 8x10 camera will not produce an image with the same linearity and gradation accuracy of a camera with a much smaller sensor but two times as many pixels. So, the inevitable errors in the final image is also "noise", and more relevant than what the individual sensor cell can capture because it's the image that one looks at, not the sensor cell's noise level. -- best regards, Neil |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: the 12mp 8x10 camera has 75 micron pixels. those are *huge*. its base iso is 2100, versus a base iso of 100-200 on a typical slr. Doesn't mean much though does it. it means quite a bit. It;s lioke saying a 2 1/1 square neg will collect more dust than a 35mm slide. sort of, but you're ignoring that it also captures *significantly* more light. So a bigger sensor means less noise for the same sensor type. yes. |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
In article , Neil
wrote: https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/art...eSense-Sensor- Size-Comparison-x800.jpeg size matters. full frame sensors have about a stop less noise than crop sensors, which have about a stop less noise than micro 4/3rds, which have a lot less noise than compact cameras and certainly cellphone cameras, which have tiny sensors and very aggressive noise reduction (which works fairly well, but not without compromise). So a bigger sensor means less noise for the same sensor type. Nospam ignores the fact that his reply to my comment was comparing _cameras_, not the noise level of a single sensor cell. i was comparing cameras. At 12mp, the final output of that 8x10 camera will not produce an image with the same linearity and gradation accuracy of a camera with a much smaller sensor but two times as many pixels. So, the inevitable errors in the final image is also "noise", and more relevant than what the individual sensor cell can capture because it's the image that one looks at, not the sensor cell's noise level. false. |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
On 4/19/2018 11:18 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil wrote: https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/art...eSense-Sensor- Size-Comparison-x800.jpeg size matters. full frame sensors have about a stop less noise than crop sensors, which have about a stop less noise than micro 4/3rds, which have a lot less noise than compact cameras and certainly cellphone cameras, which have tiny sensors and very aggressive noise reduction (which works fairly well, but not without compromise). So a bigger sensor means less noise for the same sensor type. Nospam ignores the fact that his reply to my comment was comparing _cameras_, not the noise level of a single sensor cell. i was comparing cameras. Nope. At 12mp, the final output of that 8x10 camera will not produce an image with the same linearity and gradation accuracy of a camera with a much smaller sensor but two times as many pixels. So, the inevitable errors in the final image is also "noise", and more relevant than what the individual sensor cell can capture because it's the image that one looks at, not the sensor cell's noise level. false. Once again, you are wrong. Do the math, then come back with the same BS. -- best regards, Neil |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
In article , Neil
wrote: size matters. full frame sensors have about a stop less noise than crop sensors, which have about a stop less noise than micro 4/3rds, which have a lot less noise than compact cameras and certainly cellphone cameras, which have tiny sensors and very aggressive noise reduction (which works fairly well, but not without compromise). So a bigger sensor means less noise for the same sensor type. Nospam ignores the fact that his reply to my comment was comparing _cameras_, not the noise level of a single sensor cell. i was comparing cameras. Nope. wrong. At 12mp, the final output of that 8x10 camera will not produce an image with the same linearity and gradation accuracy of a camera with a much smaller sensor but two times as many pixels. So, the inevitable errors in the final image is also "noise", and more relevant than what the individual sensor cell can capture because it's the image that one looks at, not the sensor cell's noise level. false. Once again, you are wrong. Do the math, then come back with the same BS. i've done the math, as have many others. simple example: 12 mp cellphone camera versus 12mp full frame slr. you're wrong. tl;dr size matters. |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 16:02:52 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Neil wrote: If that 12 megapixel is the actual resolution and isn't a typo, I'd much rather carry my Olympus TG-4. while it may be easier to carry, it has much smaller pixels, therefore much higher noise. "Much" higher noise? yes. I seriously doubt it. then you don't understand physics. S/N has more parameters than just pixel size. so what? the dominant factor for noise is pixel size. larger pixels collect more light. basic physics. It's not so much that they collect more light but that there is less random variation in the number of photons which each cell collects. the 12mp 8x10 camera has 75 micron pixels. those are *huge*. its base iso is 2100, versus a base iso of 100-200 on a typical slr. https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/art...eSense-Sensor- Size-Comparison-x800.jpeg size matters. full frame sensors have about a stop less noise than crop sensors, which have about a stop less noise than micro 4/3rds, which have a lot less noise than compact cameras and certainly cellphone cameras, which have tiny sensors and very aggressive noise reduction (which works fairly well, but not without compromise). -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 17:44:24 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Neil wrote: size matters. full frame sensors have about a stop less noise than crop sensors, which have about a stop less noise than micro 4/3rds, which have a lot less noise than compact cameras and certainly cellphone cameras, which have tiny sensors and very aggressive noise reduction (which works fairly well, but not without compromise). So a bigger sensor means less noise for the same sensor type. Nospam ignores the fact that his reply to my comment was comparing _cameras_, not the noise level of a single sensor cell. i was comparing cameras. Nope. wrong. At 12mp, the final output of that 8x10 camera will not produce an image with the same linearity and gradation accuracy of a camera with a much smaller sensor but two times as many pixels. So, the inevitable errors in the final image is also "noise", and more relevant than what the individual sensor cell can capture because it's the image that one looks at, not the sensor cell's noise level. false. Once again, you are wrong. Do the math, then come back with the same BS. i've done the math, as have many others. simple example: 12 mp cellphone camera versus 12mp full frame slr. You are right. Cell size does matter for shot noise. you're wrong. tl;dr size matters. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
A camera with a sensor bigger than 8 by 10 inches??!!
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 01:55:09 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
wrote: On Friday, 20 April 2018 04:00:41 UTC+1, Eric Stevens wrote: On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 16:02:52 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Neil wrote: If that 12 megapixel is the actual resolution and isn't a typo, I'd much rather carry my Olympus TG-4. while it may be easier to carry, it has much smaller pixels, therefore much higher noise. "Much" higher noise? yes. I seriously doubt it. then you don't understand physics. S/N has more parameters than just pixel size. so what? the dominant factor for noise is pixel size. larger pixels collect more light. basic physics. It's not so much that they collect more light but that there is less random variation in the number of photons which each cell collects. I don't think that has anything to do with it, noise IS defined as unwanted signal in the device and associated circuitry. Do you mean you are happy with shot noise? -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
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