Battery question
 

JEP wrote:
I very rarely use my digital camera, so most of the time it sits in a
[...]
The camera is a 6 year old point-and-shoot Nikon Coolpix 2100 (2
megapixel) that uses AA batteries. I have been using rechargable
Energizer NiMH batteries, 2500 mAh. My problem is that the batteries are
almost always dead whenever I need my camera;

Yes, normal rechargable batteries have a high self-discharge rate, even
when not used. And they age. After 6 years I would expect the battery to
hold only a fraction of what it used to hold when new. Plus the deep
discharge every time is not a life-enhancing scenario, either.

They seem to be drain within a week or so.

New rechargable batteries should last significantly longer, typical NiMH
should loose about 1/3 per month.

I bought rechargable NiMH batteries because I was told digital cameras
would deplete other batteries too quickly.

Well,almost true. Using batteries instead of rechargables will deplete
your wallet if you have a standard usage pattern for your camera. You
don't.

Given my usage patterns, should I be using a different type of battery?

Most definitely yes.

I want something that will hold its charge (for the long periods when the
camera is not being used)

Use normal AA batteries (non-rechargable). For your usage pattern that's
the best option. Not to mention that you can just try it without buying
any new stuff.
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.

but will have enough juice to get me through a
week or two of vacation when I do use the camera.

That's not going to happen. If you _actively_use_ the camera daily then
no batterie will hold enough charge to last that long.

jue

Battery question
 

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:40:35 -0700, Jürgen Exner
wrote:

Use normal AA batteries (non-rechargable). For your usage pattern that's
the best option. Not to mention that you can just try it without buying
any new stuff.
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.


The new low-discharge "pre-charged" NiMH batteries do not require a new
charger. And if you don't buy the Eneloop brand of these types of batteries
then they are no more expensive than normal prices you've paid for NiMH
batteries in the past. The only reason Eneloops are higher priced is
because that's the only brand-name that online parroting trolls, who don't
actually buy batteries for their imaginary cameras, know of to spew
constantly. Since everyone thinks that Eneloops are the only brand or
somehow better, then Sanyo gets to rob everyone blind. Such is the folly of
following online troll's advice. Eneloops may have been the first kids on
the block but that's not been true for almost 2 years now. Nor are Eneloops
the best anymore. Though you'll never know this by listening to online
trolls' parroted advice.

You are also wrong about advising them to use normal alkaline AA batteries.
Digital cameras require high-current rates, but for very short durations.
Regular alkalines will only be useful for a very short period of their
typical life-time in all other devices before their voltage drops below a
useful level for digital cameras. A *huge* waste of money for a digital
camera. NiMHs or Lithiums (if your battery can deal with the slightly
higher voltages of Lithium AAs) are best for all digital cameras.

Please stop spouting advice on a topic that you obviously know nothing
about.

Battery question
 

Factual Corrections wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:40:35 -0700, Jürgen Exner
wrote:

Use normal AA batteries (non-rechargable). For your usage pattern that's
the best option. Not to mention that you can just try it without buying
any new stuff.
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.
[ranting snipped]

Oh, I see you found a new field for your rantings because nobody was
listening to your P&S versus dSLR nonsense any longer.

jue

Battery question
 

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:24:51 -0700, Jürgen Exner
wrote:

Factual Corrections wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:40:35 -0700, Jürgen Exner
wrote:

Use normal AA batteries (non-rechargable). For your usage pattern that's
the best option. Not to mention that you can just try it without buying
any new stuff.
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.
[ranting snipped]

Oh, I see you found a new field for your rantings because nobody was
listening to your P&S versus dSLR nonsense any longer.

jue

Is that the only kind of red-herring reply you can come up with when anyone
has easily proved you 100% wrong? Is this the only way you can refute being
exposed as an ignorant troll who is spouting major misinformation (a good
moniker for you, Major MissInformation) because you clearly know nothing
about cameras and the batteries they use? Which now shows everyone how much
credibility you'll ever have about any cameras at all.

No need to reply. You had your chance. It didn't work. In fact your reply
made you look even worse. No doubt another reply from you will do the same
for you, only worse yet.

I know, try highlighting typos or grammar errors for your next reply. Then
you'll be clearly displaying both of the most important and obvious
troll-feathers in your cap.

Go crawl back under your rock. Your exposure to some light is starting to
peel your scales away.

Battery question
 

"Jürgen Exner" wrote in message
[]
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.
[]
jue

Do you have a reference for "requiring a new charger"? I've been using my
standard "1-hour" NiMH charger for the last several months with no
problem.

David

Battery question
 

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:25:39 GMT, David J Taylor wrote:

Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.

Do you have a reference for "requiring a new charger"? I've been using my
standard "1-hour" NiMH charger for the last several months with no problem.

You're correct, the Eneloops do *not* require a new charger. When
they were introduced (first the Eneloops, followed several months
later by RayOVac's Hybrids), and before Sanyo started packaging
chargers with some of their Eneloops, the packages said that any
standard NiMH charger could be used. In fact some of Eneloops
chargers are sub-optimal. They're all very slow, but some of them
also lack individual charging circuits,only charging cells in pairs.

Battery question
 

"David J Taylor"
wrote:
"Jürgen Exner" wrote in message
[]
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.

Do you have a reference for "requiring a new charger"? I've been using my
standard "1-hour" NiMH charger for the last several months with no
problem.

Hmmm, good to know. I didn't have a NiMH charger and was certain that I
couldn't use my old NiCd-charger, so I had to get a new one with the
Eneloops.

jue

Battery question
 

"Jürgen Exner" wrote in message
...
"David J Taylor"
wrote:
"Jürgen Exner" wrote in message
[]
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However
they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.

Do you have a reference for "requiring a new charger"? I've been using
my
standard "1-hour" NiMH charger for the last several months with no
problem.

Hmmm, good to know. I didn't have a NiMH charger and was certain that I
couldn't use my old NiCd-charger, so I had to get a new one with the
Eneloops.

jue

Yes, NiCd and NiMH /do/ require different chargers.

David

Battery question
 

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:31:19 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote:


"Jürgen Exner" wrote in message
.. .
"David J Taylor"
wrote:
"Jürgen Exner" wrote in message
[]
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However
they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.

Do you have a reference for "requiring a new charger"? I've been using
my
standard "1-hour" NiMH charger for the last several months with no
problem.

Hmmm, good to know. I didn't have a NiMH charger and was certain that I
couldn't use my old NiCd-charger, so I had to get a new one with the
Eneloops.

jue

Yes, NiCd and NiMH /do/ require different chargers.

David

No, it all depends on their mAh output. If the NiCd is charging at a 200
mAh rate or less, then there's no need to get a new charger if all you have
is an ancient NiCd charger. Yes, it will take longer than the amperage that
more modern NiMH chargers put out and charge the batteries more quickly,
but a constant 200 mAh charge on NiMH batteries will not harm them.

Many NiMH chargers keep a sustained 150mAh charge on batteries after their
initial full charge to circumvent their internal draining resistance
(self-discharge rate).

I'm amazed at the amount of ignorance being displayed by self-appointed
"pros" in this newsgroup.

Battery question
 

"Factual Corrections" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:31:19 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote:


"Jürgen Exner" wrote in message
. ..
"David J Taylor"
wrote:
"Jürgen Exner" wrote in message
[]
Or try the new Sanyo Eneelops with low self-discharge rate. However
they
are expensive and require a new charger, too.

Do you have a reference for "requiring a new charger"? I've been using
my
standard "1-hour" NiMH charger for the last several months with no
problem.

Hmmm, good to know. I didn't have a NiMH charger and was certain that I
couldn't use my old NiCd-charger, so I had to get a new one with the
Eneloops.

jue

Yes, NiCd and NiMH /do/ require different chargers.

David

No, it all depends on their mAh output. If the NiCd is charging at a 200
mAh rate or less, then there's no need to get a new charger if all you
have
is an ancient NiCd charger. Yes, it will take longer than the amperage
that
more modern NiMH chargers put out and charge the batteries more quickly,
but a constant 200 mAh charge on NiMH batteries will not harm them.

Many NiMH chargers keep a sustained 150mAh charge on batteries after their
initial full charge to circumvent their internal draining resistance
(self-discharge rate).

I'm amazed at the amount of ignorance being displayed by self-appointed
"pros" in this newsgroup.

200 mAh is a capacity, not a charge rate. I agree with you with on the
ignorance been shown.

MG

Battery question
 

In article , David J
Taylor
wrote:

Hmmm, good to know. I didn't have a NiMH charger and was certain that I
couldn't use my old NiCd-charger, so I had to get a new one with the
Eneloops.

Yes, NiCd and NiMH /do/ require different chargers.

more accurately, they require different charge profiles. the same
charger can do both and should auto-detect the battery type.

Battery question
 

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:26:17 +0200, "MG" wrote:


200 mAh is a capacity, not a charge rate. I agree with you with on the
ignorance been shown.

MG

Thanks for the correction. Should have just been mA. I'll blame it on the
brandy I overdid at the time of previous posting.

Battery question
 

"David J Taylor"
wrote in
message om...
[]
Yes, NiCd and NiMH /do/ require different chargers.

David

... or different settings on the same charger, if you have a dual-mode
charger.

David

Battery question
 

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , David J
Taylor
wrote:

Hmmm, good to know. I didn't have a NiMH charger and was certain that
I
couldn't use my old NiCd-charger, so I had to get a new one with the
Eneloops.

Yes, NiCd and NiMH /do/ require different chargers.

more accurately, they require different charge profiles. the same
charger can do both and should auto-detect the battery type.

Yes, that's what I meant. Post updated.

David

Battery question
 

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:27:46 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote:


"David J Taylor"
wrote in
message om...
[]
Yes, NiCd and NiMH /do/ require different chargers.

David

.. or different settings on the same charger, if you have a dual-mode
charger.

David

True only on newer higher-amperage chargers, not true on older NiCd
chargers. If your old NiCd charger only puts out 80-150 mA, the type where
you timed how long you left a NiCd cell in the charger (the 12-18 hrs. to
charge variety) then you can use the same charger with NiMH cells, leaving
them in there as long as you wish, weeks, months even. They might lose a
little life expectancy but not so as you'd notice more than any other mild
charging abuse of NiMH cells. Granted charging times with the higher
capacity of today's NiMH cells will also increase the top-off charging time
up to twice as long (25-36 hrs.), but you *can* use your old NiCd chargers
with new NiMHs. If that's all you have and don't mind leaving them in the
charger indefinitely until you need them, there's no harm in using old
chargers with new cells, both kinds of cells.

If your old charger puts out 250-300mA (read the current on the device or
wall-transformer), you could probably get away with using that too. Just
don't leave the NiMH cells in them for many days and weeks. They'll be safe
with a constant current that high on them, but it will shorten their life
by being kept a little warmer with more possible out-gassing. (Why most
batteries die before their time: The liquid component(s) turn to gas when
over-heated. If the internal pressure is too high it vents this precious
gas to the atmosphere and it can't condense back into liquid inside the
battery again when the battery cools. In effect, they cyclically get dried
out.)


Anecdotal evidence to the contrary (and contrary to all other advice you'll
read):

A photo-trekking buddy back in 2003 (year important because standard NiMH
chemistry was still being tweaked back then) had an old wall-pack type 4-AA
NiCd fast-charger that output 400mA per cell. He would leave his NiMH cells
in that charger all the time until needed (on the 120v inverter in the
motor-home photo-rig or when our rig was plugged into services at a more
civilized campgrounds). I kept trying to convince him to use other newer
12v traveling NiMH chargers with auto-shutoff, etc. (like mine were),
concerned about him possibly damaging his batteries, or exploding and doing
worse damage. But he didn't care and didn't mind. As long as what he was
doing worked for him he kept doing it, there was no convincing him
otherwise. They were decidedly very very warm whenever I'd check them over
the days. Almost too hot to touch. After a day they were not too different
than the temperature that mine reach in a 2.5-3 hour charger at the end of
the charging cycle. Yet it didn't destroy the batteries as quickly as I
thought it would, if indeed it ever did.

Over a period of almost a year he was swapping-out batteries a little more
often than once a week, always returning the old set to the same charger. I
being concerned they'd burst into flames or eventually explode one day.
None of the cells being kept with that high of a current on them for many
days (for weeks a couple times) seemed to be diminished in capacity during
that year. I suspect that (some?) NiMH cells are much more forgiving than
we want to believe. I wouldn't recommend using that high of a current on
NiMHs indefinitely, but I also wouldn't be overly concerned if I left them
in a charger of that type for that long because I had forgot about them.
Not after seeing how well his sets of batteries survived that kind of
charging abuse. This was even before they improved on the NiMH chemistry
used today. You'd probably end up buying a new set just for the hell of it
because you saw some on sale before you could ever kill the old ones with a
constant 400mA current, according to what I've witnessed.

Battery question
 

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:11:06 -0500, Factual Corrections
wrote:

Since everyone thinks that Eneloops are the only brand or
somehow better, then Sanyo gets to rob everyone blind. Such is the folly of
following online troll's advice. Eneloops may have been the first kids on
the block but that's not been true for almost 2 years now. Nor are Eneloops
the best anymore.


I'm just about to order another set of Eneloops having been very
pleased with my first set. What brand would you recommend I buy
instead?

Thanks

--
AnthonyL

Battery question
 

MG wrote:

200 mAh is a capacity, not a charge rate. I agree with you with on the
ignorance been shown.

You should not maintain a trickle charge current of more than C/100 on
NiMH batteries, with C being the capacity of the battery. 200 mA is an
order of magnitude too great, and will quickly destroy the batterys. 10
mA is suffficient to maintain the batteries at full charge without
destroying them.