Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

I had the following thoughts on how to create a true B&W print from a
digital image, and was wondering if anyone here had tried it or what
your thoughts are on the technique. If someone has tried it and it is
hopeless, then I won't fork out the $$ to try it myself. Basically my
idea is to invert the image in whatever photo editor software to create
a negative image. Print this negative image at the output size on a
piece of transparency paper. Then contact print the negative image on
B&W paper and process as per normal.
I can't see why it wouldn't work, although I don't know how the quality
would compare - I wonder how a contact printed 8x10 inkjet negative
would compare to a 35mm neg enlarged optically.

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

In article
,
Graham Fountain wrote:

I had the following thoughts on how to create a true B&W print from a
digital image, and was wondering if anyone here had tried it or what
your thoughts are on the technique. If someone has tried it and it is
hopeless, then I won't fork out the $$ to try it myself. Basically my
idea is to invert the image in whatever photo editor software to create
a negative image. Print this negative image at the output size on a
piece of transparency paper. Then contact print the negative image on
B&W paper and process as per normal.
I can't see why it wouldn't work, although I don't know how the quality
would compare - I wonder how a contact printed 8x10 inkjet negative
would compare to a 35mm neg enlarged optically.

The paper has too much texture to make a negative, but people have been
doing the very same thing you mention for a few years using Pictorico OHT
film then contacting the final as a positive. Check out the work and
books of Dan Burkholder.
--
Reality-Is finding that perfect picture
and never looking back.

www.gregblankphoto.com

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

Graham,

I do this all the time with my classes for making cyanotypes and Van
Dyke prints. Much easier and cheaper than using lith film and makes
very good detailed prints. I have never tried it as a contact neg for a
regular photo paper print. I'll try it.

Frank
Graham Fountain wrote:
I had the following thoughts on how to create a true B&W print from a
digital image, and was wondering if anyone here had tried it or what
your thoughts are on the technique. If someone has tried it and it is
hopeless, then I won't fork out the $$ to try it myself. Basically my
idea is to invert the image in whatever photo editor software to create
a negative image. Print this negative image at the output size on a
piece of transparency paper. Then contact print the negative image on
B&W paper and process as per normal.
I can't see why it wouldn't work, although I don't know how the quality
would compare - I wonder how a contact printed 8x10 inkjet negative
would compare to a 35mm neg enlarged optically.

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

Graham Fountain a écrit :
I had the following thoughts on how to create a true B&W print from a
digital image, and was wondering if anyone here had tried it or what
your thoughts are on the technique. If someone has tried it and it is
hopeless, then I won't fork out the $$ to try it myself. Basically my
idea is to invert the image in whatever photo editor software to create
a negative image. Print this negative image at the output size on a
piece of transparency paper. Then contact print the negative image on
B&W paper and process as per normal.
I can't see why it wouldn't work, although I don't know how the quality
would compare - I wonder how a contact printed 8x10 inkjet negative
would compare to a 35mm neg enlarged optically.

Dan Burkholder (http://www.danburkholder.com/) and Mark Nelson
(http://www.precisiondigitalnegatives.com/) are known for using this
technique for years.
Mark has also a mailing list where adepts discuss this technique:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PDNPrint/

It works very well for alternative techniques but for silver gelatin it
seems still somewhat difficult to obtain perfect results.

An alternative is to use imagesetter (machines that are used to produce
high resolution films for offset printing) output but results vary
greatly on the service bureau you can find. I wasn't lucky to find a
good one, prices very to high and imagesetters are quickly disappearing
in my country being replaced by CTP (computer-to-plate) technology.

I'm waiting either that inkjet improves to use digital negatives or that
a true digital enlarger for the advanced amateur hits the market.

Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

Claudio Bonavolta spake thus:

Graham Fountain a écrit :

I had the following thoughts on how to create a true B&W print from a
digital image, and was wondering if anyone here had tried it or what
your thoughts are on the technique. If someone has tried it and it is
hopeless, then I won't fork out the $$ to try it myself. Basically my
idea is to invert the image in whatever photo editor software to
create a negative image. Print this negative image at the output size
on a piece of transparency paper. Then contact print the negative
image on B&W paper and process as per normal.
I can't see why it wouldn't work, although I don't know how the
quality would compare - I wonder how a contact printed 8x10 inkjet
negative would compare to a 35mm neg enlarged optically.

An alternative is to use imagesetter (machines that are used to produce
high resolution films for offset printing) output but results vary
greatly on the service bureau you can find. I wasn't lucky to find a
good one, prices very to high and imagesetters are quickly disappearing
in my country being replaced by CTP (computer-to-plate) technology.

Just keep in mind that what you'll get from this will *not* be a
continuous-tone negative, but a screened one. You can have them set the
screen frequency very high (i.e., dot size very small), which will tend
towards continuous-tone, but it's still going to be a bunch of dots.
(I'm sure you realize this, just pointing this out for others.)


--
I think someone should unplug the entire Internet and let us start
all over again. This time, make sure that Sergey Brin, Larry Page,
Jimmy Wales, and any admins from Wikipedia are not allowed to play,
by order of the U.N. Security Council or whatever.

- Daniel Brandt, on Wikipedia Review (http://wikipediareview.com)

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

Graham Fountain scribed:
.... how to create a true B&W print from a digital image ...

A 'film recorder'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_recorder

Available cheap on ebay.

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

Ray wrote:
I just grayscaled the image and printed on an inkjet. Results are awful.
Some of the more expensive cameras have a B&W setting. I'd like somebody
post a binary from a camera that has the B&W setting.

A good workman never blames his tools. Just like you would produce awful
prints in a darkroom without the needed skills, you are getting prints
equal to your skill level.

If you have the right tools (try the GIMP) and the right printer settings,
you can produce decent monchromatic prints. Many cheap inkjet printers
print monochromatic photographs better using color inks, as the printers
are higher in resolution in color and you can "tweak" the color.

The magazine Practical Photography several years ago had a Black and White
special issue which included practical tips on using inkjets. Following
their advice, I produced what I would call very good prints.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

Ray wrote:
I just grayscaled the image and printed on an inkjet. Results are awful.
Some of the more expensive cameras have a B&W setting. I'd like somebody
post a binary from a camera that has the B&W setting.

Turning a colour image to B&W by just grayscaling/desaturating normally
gives pretty dull results. In photoshop, the channel mixer allows a bit
better control, resulting in better control of contrast. A little play
with gamma then and you normally have a pretty decent result. I don't
think it truly represents what can be done with B&W film, but makes a
reasonable substitute.

Output of B&W with most inkjets though is pretty bad - most use a mix of
black and colour inks which results in your grays becoming muddy, you
usually end up with a colour cast (which can often change depending on
how light or dark the area is), and black areas end up with an unnatural
sheen to them. These limitations of inkjet were what I was hoping to
overcome by printing a neg onto transparency, then printing that neg in
the darkroom. My reasoning being that inkjets can produce a reasonable
range of densities from light to dark, but because they use colours to
do it, they look awful. If those densities were then reproduced in a B&W
only medium (ie printing on B&W paper), then hopefully the results will
be ok.

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

"Ray" wrote in message
news:pX2xg.2627$fL3.795@trnddc07...
I just grayscaled the image and printed on an inkjet. Results are awful.
Some of the more expensive cameras have a B&W setting. I'd like somebody
post a binary from a camera that has the B&W setting.

B&W setting on any camera is the pits (do you really think that the puny,
slow processor and limited software on the camera do a better job than a
Pentium-class machine..?)

Try this for stirrers and then work out your own technique to convert a
"color" digital image to B&W.
http://www.escrappers.com/gray.html#pse


--
eM eL

Creating true B&W prints from Digital
 

"eM eL" wrote

(do you really think that the puny, slow processor and limited software on
the camera do a better job than a Pentium-class machine..?)

Cough, yes ... the 'processor' in a camera is designed for
imaging, can't do much else, but it sure can process
images quickly.

Now, if what it does and what you want done are different
then you have a bit of a problem. Ref.: Lem, Stanislaw; "The
Stupidest Machine in the Universe"; _The Cyberaids_.


--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics, Photonics, Informatics.
Remove blanks to reply: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
f-Stop enlarging timers: http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/