Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

I have recently acquired and plumbed in the ATL-2300 and am getting an
intermittent error, occasionally a this doesn't occur, but more often
than not at least one of the 3 baths of E6 chemicals are not pumped
across into the drum. I am using the front bank of tanks and tanks 1-3.

The machine makes a bleeping sound, by pressing "Start" it then pumps
the chemicals across with no difficulty whatsoever. This problem is
causing streaking on some sheets of film (mostly doing 5x4 E6) and
clearly isn't operating as an Auto machine as I have to be on standby
to go and press the button!

I have checked seals on lids of chemical bottles, smeared thick
Silicone grease around the top of the o-rings on the bottle, replaced
the red seal on each of the tank lids, but still the problem recurs.

FWIW I have tried Autofill options and where I set the chemical volume
manually. This seems to have no effect on the problem.

Those that have experience of these machines please could you advise on
what I should be checking to rectify the problem?

Prior to this I have been using an ATL-1000 which has been fine with
the tanks I am using now.

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

Baxter wrote:

I have checked seals on lids of chemical bottles, smeared thick
Silicone grease around the top of the o-rings on the bottle, replaced
the red seal on each of the tank lids, but still the problem recurs.

This could be a problem with the electronics, the air pump, or the air
distributor that switches the air supply over to the next bottle.

If the problem occurs, do you still hear the pump running? If there is
silence at the moment when you should be hearing the usual purring of
the pump, I'd check the relay that controls it.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

"Baxter" wrote

least one of the 3 baths of E6 chemicals are not pumped
across into the drum

Is it always the same one?

The machine makes a bleeping sound, by pressing "Start" it then pumps
the chemicals across with no difficulty whatsoever.

I take it the sequence is:

o Start processing

o Processes normally until -

o Time for chemical #n and then the Jobo beeps

o Press "Start" and the Jobo completes the processing

Is this correct?

Does the Jobo have level sensors to detect if it is out of
a chemical?

I confess I do not have an ATL, but I have designed quite
a few automatic blood chemistry analyzers. There is a lot
of overlap between clinical chemistry and photography.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

Thankyou Ralf

I haven't used the machine for 10 days since I have been so cross and
frustrated! I seem to remember that a very small bit of fluid is pumped
(hence streaking where this has splashed onto film and given more
development), it gives up the ghost and so pressing the start button to
override relay then gets the rest across.

The frustrating thing is that it hardly ever seems to happen when using
water in the chemical bottles to fault-find and with no film in the
tank. Lulling me into a false sense of security, it then recurs once I
am using E6 chemicals and film......

The fact that it is intermittent would indicate electrical fault of
some sort wouldn't it? If so and being unfamiliar with these Jobo
machines, where is the relay situated? I have found, but not yet
checked the other items. Will endeavour to do this later tonight.

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

The bottle number on which the fault occurs varies, sometimes just a
single one (1, 2 or 3) and sometimes any two, or occasionally all 3 -
or even none!

It only beeps having correctly moved to the next stage and when trying
to pump that particular bottle. Pressing the 'Start" button then
activates the pumping process correctly.

There aren't level sensors in the bottles. You program the amount of
fluid and it performs a simple subtraction process to determine if
future runs are possible.

I seem to remember that a very small bit of fluid is pumped

Whatever is malfunctioning should be something that is common to all
three chemicals.

It sounds to me like the Jobo starts the action, detects something
has gone wrong, and beeps for help. Pushing the start button tells
it to try again and this time things go OK.

Before the Jobo malfunctions can you hear the pump running for
second or two to pump 'the very small bit of fluid'? Or is this
a spurt of the previous chemical that may be dispensed by the valves
actuating.

Is the fluid selection valve a rotary valve or are there valves
for each fluid?

Is there a sensor to detect fluid going through the pump/tubing?

Do you get air bubbles in the tubing?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

Baxter wrote:

There aren't level sensors in the bottles.

I don't have a 2300 but I've had a number of ATL's in operation. My
current one is an ATL 2+. Their innards are all basically identical,
give or take a row of bottles etc.

There is a wire pieced through the hose leading to the lift. This wire
is used for a resistance measurement in order to determine if liquid is
flowing through the hose.

Now, if during the pumping step, no liquid is detected at this position
within a certain time span (e.g. empty bottle, lid no closed...) or if
liquid detection ends too early indicating that either there hasn't been
enough soup in the bottle or pumping doesn't work as it should, an alarm
is triggered and processing is interrupted. This alarm can then be
acknowledged by pressing the start button after which the machine makes
a renewed attempt at pumping.

Apparently, this second attempt in your case delivers enough liquid for
processing to continue, but the damage (streaks) has already been done
by having the tank rotate with too little liquid for a time.

Get the idea?

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

Whatever is malfunctioning should be something that is common to all
three chemicals.

I suspect the pump or the electronics/relay controlling it. I've had
trouble with control signals in my ATL's caused by the IC sockets.
They've used the cheap spring type sockets instead of the better ones
with the round holes. These buggers cause the same kind of problems that
haunted my Amiga computers from the same era.

Speaking of Commodore, early JOBO ATL's use the 6502 of Commodore PET
fame.

It sounds to me like the Jobo starts the action, detects something
has gone wrong, and beeps for help. Pushing the start button tells
it to try again and this time things go OK.

Exactly.

Is the fluid selection valve a rotary valve or are there valves
for each fluid?

It is a rotary device.

Is there a sensor to detect fluid going through the pump/tubing?

See my other message.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

Siilly old me wrote:

I suspect the pump or the electronics/relay controlling it. I've had
trouble with control signals in my ATL's caused by the IC sockets.
They've used the cheap spring type sockets instead of the better ones
with the round holes.

I should have mentioned that pushing all IC's firmly down in their
sockets sometimes helps, albeit only as a temporary measure.

For a permanent fix, I used to solder decent sockets right on to the old
ones. Unsoldering the old sockets requires a lot of skill and the right
tools or you'll do unrepairable damage to the PC board.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

Thanks Nicholas and Ralf

That will keep me busy - until Christmas!

Will get cracking once I have the children in bed.

I am very glad I found this forum, I have had no luck when posting
tales of these woes elsewhere.

Baxter

Jobo ATL-2300 chemical pumping error
 

"Ralf R. Radermacher" wrote

There is a wire pieced through the hose leading to the lift. This wire
is used for a resistance measurement in order to determine if liquid is
flowing through the hose.

Bingo -- that is where I would say the problem lies.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm