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"William Graham" wrote in message news:p%mCc.94061$eu.6020@attbi_s02...
"David H. Lipman" wrote in message
...
I almost *always* Top Post and will continue to do so !

If they state it -- there has to be a reason. Please provide it.

Dave

Any batteries will work in a camera as long as they do not exceed the
voltage specs for the camera as put out by the manufacturer.

Most of the time probably true, even for camera instructions that
say otherwise.

But it's not absolutely true. Batteries have other important specs
other than just voltage and size. Source-resistance also is an important
one. Another important feature has to do with cameras that charge batteries
"in camera" (as my wife's new digital camera does). Bad things can happen
if the wrong kind of battery is in there. The chemistry of some batteries
may be that defective ones (or overcharged ones) will outgas some small
amount of something that could affect some cameras more than others.

And even then, it may just be statistical. Meaning the "problem" whatever
is is, may affect only 1% of users, 99% are fine. That'd only be a problem
for the mfgr who's reputation for 'bad cameras' will grow (and for the 1%
who had the problem). But that would make it worthwhile saying not to use that
kind of battery.

Batteries also can have different characteristics over the maximum
spec'd temperature range. Some batteries have limited allowable
temperature ranges.

IOW, it can be more than just voltage rating.

Mike

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"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
William Graham wrote:

"pjp" wrote in message
...

I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it.
I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less,
and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose
for
your profession.......


WRONG!
Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us
how it affects bulb life.

I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is
what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery.
A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types
of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the
Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on
a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it
isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses
them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their
internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
device.........

Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
 

http://flashlightreviews.home.att.ne..._explained.htm

I thought it sounded like a good idea to put my NiMH batteries through
a deep refresh cycle in my mini Maglite. I toasted the bulb in short
order. The new package says not to use them with rechargable
batteries. This page says to only use alkaline batteries.
http://www.maglite.com/custserv.asp?...F_AAMM_Eng.gif

Maybe someone could invent a little resistor cap for lithium batteries,
but, of course, some power would be lost to heat.

I read an article in a magazine called Real Simple (www.realsimple.com)
that tested batteries in a Sony 1.3 MP digital camera. The article is from
June/July 2002, so battery technology and prices may differ. Here is the
table from the article, space formatted in OE using the default font. They
didn't test rechargeables.

Battery Price/Battery #Shots Price/Shot

Radio Shack
Enercell alkaline $1.50 94 1.6¢

Duracell
Cu-top alkaline $1.75 108 1.6¢

Rite-Aid alkaline $1.25 76 1.6¢

Duracell Ultra $2.00 121 1.7¢

Energizer e2
Titanium $1.50 82 1.8¢

Energizer e2
Lithium $5.00 220 2.3¢

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William Graham wrote:

"pjp" wrote in message
...

I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for
your profession.......

A camera may also have inductive circuits such that regardless of
the battery voltage will draw more current than expected if the
battery is capable of delivering it. If the device was designed
to oversome limitations in alkaline batteries (internal
resistance), then with more current-capable batteries high
current might ensue ... and even if briefly, long enough to cause
damage.

If Minolta tell me don't use lithium in a device, I will heed
their advice. It's too expensive not to.




--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
 

That price range is off!

Like I previously stated, I get AA Lithiums (Energizer e2) at Sears for ~$10.00 ($9.99) for
4 x AA batteries that's $2.50/battery not $5.00/battery.

Dave
|
| Energizer e2
| Lithium $5.00 220
2.3¢

"Fishface" ? wrote in message ...
| http://flashlightreviews.home.att.ne..._explained.htm
|
| I thought it sounded like a good idea to put my NiMH batteries through
| a deep refresh cycle in my mini Maglite. I toasted the bulb in short
| order. The new package says not to use them with rechargable
| batteries. This page says to only use alkaline batteries.
| http://www.maglite.com/custserv.asp?...F_AAMM_Eng.gif
|
| Maybe someone could invent a little resistor cap for lithium batteries,
| but, of course, some power would be lost to heat.
|
| I read an article in a magazine called Real Simple (www.realsimple.com)
| that tested batteries in a Sony 1.3 MP digital camera. The article is from
| June/July 2002, so battery technology and prices may differ. Here is the
| table from the article, space formatted in OE using the default font. They
| didn't test rechargeables.
|
| Battery Price/Battery #Shots Price/Shot
|
| Radio Shack
| Enercell alkaline $1.50 94 1.6¢
|
| Duracell
| Cu-top alkaline $1.75 108 1.6¢
|
| Rite-Aid alkaline $1.25 76 1.6¢
|
| Duracell Ultra $2.00 121 1.7¢
|
| Energizer e2
| Titanium $1.50 82
1.8¢
|
| Energizer e2
| Lithium $5.00 220
2.3¢
|
|
|

Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
 

David H. Lipman wrote:
That price range is off!

Yes, I suspected as much. So ignore that!

Costco has the Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak for $6.99 on
the website, I'm not sure about the stores, though. Which
brand are you using?

Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
 

Which brand ?
Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak.

Dave



"Fishface" ? wrote in message ...
| David H. Lipman wrote:
| That price range is off!
|
| Yes, I suspected as much. So ignore that!
|
| Costco has the Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak for $6.99 on
| the website, I'm not sure about the stores, though. Which
| brand are you using?
|
|

Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:56:04 GMT, "William Graham"
wrote:


"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
William Graham wrote:

"pjp" wrote in message
...

I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd
be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt
it.
I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or
less,
and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you
choose
for
your profession.......


WRONG!
Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell
us
how it affects bulb life.

I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb
is
what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the
battery.
A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are
types
of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also,
the
Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler)
on
a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But
it
isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one
uses
them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of
their
internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
device.........




Utter ****ing ********, you know **** all.

We were advised here by Panasonic not to use Alkaline batteries in remote
controls, due to the lower battery resistance..

If you short out a battery, (effectively an infinite load) then the current
will be limited only by the internal resistance of the battery. But, for all
reasonable loads, it is the load resistance that is the determining factor.
A remote control should draw very little current, so I respectfully suggest
that Panasonic was wrong........

Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
 

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
.. .
William Graham wrote:

"pjp" wrote in message
...

I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it.
I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less,
and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose
for
your profession.......

A camera may also have inductive circuits such that regardless of
the battery voltage will draw more current than expected if the
battery is capable of delivering it. If the device was designed
to oversome limitations in alkaline batteries (internal
resistance), then with more current-capable batteries high
current might ensue ... and even if briefly, long enough to cause
damage.

If Minolta tell me don't use lithium in a device, I will heed
their advice. It's too expensive not to.

The only thing internal battery resistance would affect is the short circuit
current. If the battery load is reasonable, (so the batteries would last
more than a few minutes) then this internal resistance can have no
deleterious effect on the device. I suggest that the reason the manufacturer
doesn't want you to use lithium batteries is because they put out a little
more voltage per cell than alkalines, so a set of them might over voltage
the device. If you believe the specs on the device are that marginal, then
by all means, use the batteries the manufacturer recommends. As for me, the
determining factor is the batteries tendency to leak in time and destroy the
battery compartment, especially in devices such as flash units that I may
not use for a long time. This has happened to me often enough so that I
usually just remove the batteries altogether after I use the device. If I do
this with some cameras, however, the camera looses its internal memory, and
forgets what frame it's on, and other important information, so I keep it
energized with a fresh set of batteries every few months. (I usually am
using it every day or so, anyway)

Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
 

No, he is right and you are mistaken.

Sorry.

Bob



On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 01:53:37 +1200, Robert Mathews
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:56:04 GMT, "William Graham" wrote:


"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
William Graham wrote:

"pjp" wrote in message
...

I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it.
I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less,
and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose
for
your profession.......


WRONG!
Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us
how it affects bulb life.

I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is
what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery.




BOLLOCK ******** go get a Brain transplant as you do need one..


All batteries have internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..





A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types
of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the
Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on
a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it
isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses
them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their
internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
device.........


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)